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Improving the breed.

Karen said:
You are still blaming the dog (what ever dog) for any bad stock.
And as for wasted time, should we be rushing along, darting from one litter to another in seach of the perfect puppy when perhaps we need to sit back and say is this BITCH good enough to breed from
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No I am not blaming any dog. I think they are not the guilty ones. It is the breeders.

Your point of is the bitch good enough is well taken.
 
It doesn't matter what dog, it is just this sheep attitude of "let's use the flavour of the month" dog and then you get to a point where every dog you look at after that has got the one you don't want to use in its pedigree, sometimes several times. We seem to be reducing our gene pool so severely that it cannot be good for the breed.

I agree that a lot of blame is always placed on the stud dog but then they can produce far more stock than a bitch ever will and I agree with Cartman, it is down to the breeders, owners of both dogs and bitches, to put a little more thought into the matings and for stud dog owners to say "No" sometimes. I also find it bizarre when someone admits they have a bitch that "is not good enough to show" and yet they breed from her. It is a different matter if the bitch is of sufficient quality to be bred from and you choose not to show her but to breed from what you obviously consider to be an inferior specimen???
 
dessie said:
I also find it bizarre when someone admits they have a bitch that "is not good enough to show" and yet they breed from her.
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AH!!!!!! Yes. Love that comment. o:)

What about: "No, not enough for the ring. Will have a litter, (or two). Because it has lines to dye for. :teehee:
 
Just to play devil's advocate, I can think of 2 litter sisters one became a champion, one didn't win much in the ring at all. Both were bred from. The champion didn't produce much at all. Only one of her daughters was shown. The 'ugly sister' produced a champion and 2 others in the stud book.

And, no, I'm not being rude about other people's breeding. The sisters were Ch Ringmore Riff Raff and Ringmore Rigmarie. As far as I know Nimrodel Rafia was the only one of Riff Raff's offspring to get into the ring. Rigmarie produced Ch Ringmore Thief of Time, Ringmore Snapdragon, and Ringmore Stolen Thunder, who, I think, both got their stud book numbers.

That said, I am not advocating breeding from inferior bitches just because of a nice pedigree!
 
Surely the reason why we breed a litter is to improve our stock and if 'the flavour of the month' happens to be right then why shouldn't we use him.

We choose a dog because he is right for our bitch and not because of the winning he has done.

Richard was the first person to use Fergal and Cobyco Candyman because the dogs complemented the bitches he was mating and the lines were perfect.

If you know your own breeding then you should know what you are likely to get using a dog that ties in, as for an outcross then you have to look at pevious matings to which bitches, and see what they have produced.

I do agree that not all the bad specimens should be blamed on the dog, and it should be a stud dog owners responsabilty to the breed to turn away bad specimens which have been brought to be mated.

We only have a litter when we want something ourselves to show so therefore we think long and hard and do a lot of research before deciding on a stud dog.

Unfortunatley there are those who just breed because they think they can make a bit of money and would breed from any bitch that they may have in season regardless of whether it is a good specimen or not.
 
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Sometimes we mate a pair that are both big winners and from a line and get crap so I feel its hard to say with any certaincy that litters will be good or bad. And although there will be a few people who are using the dog of the day, if you were to ask, most good breeders would have valid reasons for using a dog.

My bitch is tightly line bred so I looked for an outcross, I will have no trouble coming back into my line and may have picked up one or two things I wanted from my outcross.

Im sure there were lots of dogs Dessie could have used in the UK but she used the French dog. I think we have to look at it on an individual level and assume MOST of us have a good idea what we are doing when we use a dog or bitch.
 
I also like to look at a whippet, a prospictive sire. See what I like about it. Then look at what he has produced. Not forgeting what has been mated to him. I also like to find a whippet. If I like it so much, I then move on using the sire. Or, as the case may have it, a pup from the dam.

We all seem to be breeders that are following a path of our own. Thank heavens for that. Otherwise, everyone would have whippets like me. 8)

Waffel, waffel, waffel................etc.
 
Karen said:
Im sure there were lots of dogs Dessie could have used in the UK but she used the French dog.  I think we have to look at it on an individual level and assume MOST of us have a good idea what we are doing when we use a dog or bitch.
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I wish!! That was why I used the French dog because he went back to the old lines I was looking for and couldn't find any more in dogs over here plus didn't have the lines that I didn't want. The bonus was that I loved his colour, he was the stamp of dog I was also looking for and his movement is breathtaking. I'm only glad I saw him when I did which was just before Angel came into season because I was beginning to despair of finding something that I REALLY wanted to use on her.
 
Wouldn't have used him!! But then I probably wouldn't have noticed him in the first place!!!
 
dessie said:
Wouldn't have used him!!  But then I probably wouldn't have noticed him in the first place!!!
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Would you have missed the stunning movement? (w00t)
 
NAH , she only watches Brindles!!! :oops: :thumbsup: :huggles:
 
:D Are you two trying to wind our Dessie up? :- " I'm under the table already LOL :lol:
 
playawhile said:
Nightvision said:
We have even more difficult in Finland than Henrik has in Sweden. Well actually, at this point we have most of the lines Swedish have, but we can see the influense of Henrik's Play A While at Peperone even more clearly in Finland. There aren't many breeders who doesn't have him somewhere in their lines, and some breeders base almost their whole breeding to him.
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Hi again!

This is also another problem with stud dogs (and brood bitches). Even if they don't produce many litters, they can still have a very strong inlfuence on the breed, like my Play A While at Peperone. I think he only produced three litters in Finland and I exported one bitch by him to Finland, but still he is behind so many of the Finnish whippets. I was told that one of the most influential Saluki dogs ever in the US only produced three litters out of bitches that the owners picked very carefully. So if a dog/bitch in a few litters produces nice sons and daughters that are heavliy used a dog/bitch can have a very strong influence on the breed in a specific country. Siobhan of Hillsdown is a goood example in the UK I think.

I have a program in my computer that is connected to all the information at the Swedish kennel club and through this proghram I can see exacly how many puppies a dog/bitch has produced and who they were bred to. I can also tell the program to list how many grand children a certain dog has produced. Quite interesting!!

Henrik Härling
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Hello Henrik and all others!

I have not been in on K9 for a while.

Henrik woulde't it be a good ide to translate that article that you wrote about breeding to english, that has just been published in the Swedish Whippet magazine?

And publish it here on K9!
 
Millie Posted on May 6 2004, 07:06 PM Are you two trying to wind our Dessie up? 
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I didnt realise it would be THat easy ! , :eek: but now youve mentioned it :- "

Yes Henrick , lets all see what youve written ;)
 
raghammar said:
Hello Henrik and all others!I have not been in on K9 for a while.

Henrik woulde't it be a good ide to translate that article that you wrote about breeding to english, that has just been published in the Swedish Whippet magazine?

And publish it here on K9!
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Hi!

Maybe I can write what it's all about as translating the whole thing would take such a long time.

Stefan - why do you want me to translate this article?????

Henrik Härling
 
playawhile said:
raghammar said:
Hello Henrik and all others!I have not been in on K9 for a while.

Henrik woulde't it be a good ide to translate that article that you wrote about breeding to english, that has just been published in the Swedish Whippet magazine?

And publish it here on K9!
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Hi!

Maybe I can write what it's all about as translating the whole thing would take such a long time.

Stefan - why do you want me to translate this article?????

Henrik Härling
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Henrik!

The article is very interesting and I think a lot of the English spoken breeders are also interested in your ideas. I myself feel when I read it like a hit right in the face!

I myself don’t breed for quick results in the ring, I’ve been in this breed for more than 30 years since a was a small boy. I’ve waited for a long time before I started with breeding and then finally in the mid 80’s I had my first litter, that generation of my breeding was not for me a successful start so I stopped, I thought well lets get some more “education” in the breed and wait for a while until I get better material, well I think and I hope that I got it now!

I also wonder what do you think when you judge when you see a beautiful whippet – maybe there is a beautiful one a very good whippet that one must be very inbreeded and breed by a breeder that want to have quick success in the ring – or what!?

Well Henrik we all believe in our one things in breeding and I don’t feel I want to be a priest and telling all breeders that they should do this and that. I always think when I get to know about a mating well maybe it’s good for the breed and that is what we all want isn’t it!

If you think it’s a hard work to translate your article I can as someone (as I’m not so good in English myself) but I think it would be much better if the author could do it himself.

Stefan Råghammar
 
JAX said:
Millie Posted on May 6 2004, 07:06 PM    Are you two trying to wind our Dessie up? 
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I didnt realise it would be THat easy ! , :eek: but now youve mentioned it :- "
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Nah! I'm not wound up at all cos

I DON'T DO FAWNS!!!!

It could have had the best movement ever but I still wouldn't have considered using it!!!!
 
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