Who Would Put This On A Dog?

[FeeFee]

:lol: :lol: Even stranger that a troll brand new member has popped up to resurrect the argument then.

 

[hares540]

That made me shudder when the photo loaded. Horrible.

 

[eve]

Aparently, these are legal in many European countries

 

[Chaumsong]

Unfortunately these collars are now quite common here You can buy them everywhere, amazon, ebay, pet websites etc and I have seen a few dogs wearing them. I think they're hideous. I watched a video of some eejit that thought he was a dog trainer using one - he turned a normal happy dog that pulled on the lead into a scared cowering wreck - but because she no longer pulled on the lead he thought it was a success!

 

[speedypete]

if used properly they cause less damage than a choker i had a shepherd that was unpredictable & would bite without warning if not muzzled he would rear up without warning my dog trainer suggested that we try one & i had the same misgivings as most of you here however faced with trying this or putting him down i bought one [after reading many articles about the collar on the net and if used properly cause no harm to the dog you just need a gentle check with the lead it distracts the dog & brings its focus back on you which is a lot better than eight stone of muscle & teeth working itself into a frenzy was pleased with the control it gave in these circumstances and have used them for about 10 years with no adverse affects or pain & injury to my dogs one of who was a 9 stone shepherd bitch who was all muscle and has snapped steel chokers before in her efforts to dive off after whatever she wanted to chase [she was abig soft sod that just wanted to play with everyone & everything never harmed or hurt a thing but the sight of her hurtling towards you at full belt must appear terrifying if you did not know her it provided the control needed to socialise and walk her properly & after a short while was trained sufficienly to walk to heel off the lead

so i believe there are cases & situations where they are an asset when all else fails & like me faced with a last resort measure

 

[Chaumsong]

Another new poster/troll/torturer who can't be bothered training their dog properly, lets use the quick fix and who cares how much it hurts them eh!

 

[banana]

Oh my word - when we took Ripples training they showed us these hideous collas - I cannot believe you can actually buy them!!!

 

[eingana]

I have seen lots of people demonstrate both the spike collars and the electric shock collars with the breed that I love, and the one thing that I can say to those people is that if they ever tried to put my dog in one of them then I'd put them in one too and see how they like it.

I do understand that anybody who says they train by positive methods alone hasn't met a dog which has serious issues, as many of the very emotionally damaged dogs don't respond to positive training methods as they don't trust the positive reinforcement to be present when doing what is asked of them, but that doesn't mean that the training should revert to aversive or negative training methods. Aversives should be used in very limited circumstances if, and only if, the dog is an imminent risk to themselves or the people and animals around them.

One of the people that I work with through GSDR used to be a GSD breeder and his opinions on this sort of bludgeoning punishment are so true. People have this idea that because GSDs are working dogs, they are able to withstand really strong handling and brutal punishments, but their intelligence often means that they are the emotionally most vulnerable and in need of protection. Because they are so intelligent they remember slights and injuries so well, and they expect the slights in the future too, and that can really damage them. Because they are so bright they are also that much easier to break emotionally.

Why on earth would I look into my dog's eyes and then want to hurt her? She moves heaven and earth to do the right thing for me, to obey when I ask her to do things, to look after me (and any children who are around, even if she doesn't know them, and the cats and kittens around here) and she lets me do literally anything to her, even if it hurts, because I'm her boss and that's what subservient dogs do. It's a huge responsibility having her soul and spirit entirely laid open and vulnerable to me- how could I then hurt her deliberately?

 

[Strix]

Strange how every time e-collars are criticised on any forum a brand-new members pops up and defends them :wacko:

I wouldn't use either a prong collar or an e-collar on any dog in any circumstances. Dogs can be trained by positive reinforcement alone, it's rubbish to say they can't. Guide Dogs, Assistance Dogs and many other skilled working dogs are trained without either of these 'aids'.

I'm not keen on thoughtless people using e-collars, but having visited a pub next to a railway line which has a pub dog, I agree that the safest method of preventing thoughtless customers letting him out into the carpark and into danger is a collar which works as his own personal electric fence. The boundaries have been set, and the collar is operated automatically when he approaches that boundary, thus discouraging him from wandering anywhere near the track
Now citronella collars - I wouldn't put one of THOSE on ANY dog. Citronella burns my skin. I can't handle the garden candles without gloves on. I own a scent hound who relies on his nose more than his eyes, and citronella is one of the weapons in the arsenal of a hunt sab. I wouldn't spray mace in his eyes, so I'm certainly not going to spray citronella anywhere near his nose

 

[eingana]

Strange how every time e-collars are criticised on any forum a brand-new members pops up and defends them :wacko:

I wouldn't use either a prong collar or an e-collar on any dog in any circumstances. Dogs can be trained by positive reinforcement alone, it's rubbish to say they can't. Guide Dogs, Assistance Dogs and many other skilled working dogs are trained without either of these 'aids'.

I'm not keen on thoughtless people using e-collars, but having visited a pub next to a railway line which has a pub dog, I agree that the safest method of preventing thoughtless customers letting him out into the carpark and into danger is a collar which works as his own personal electric fence. The boundaries have been set, and the collar is operated automatically when he approaches that boundary, thus discouraging him from wandering anywhere near the track
Now citronella collars - I wouldn't put one of THOSE on ANY dog. Citronella burns my skin. I can't handle the garden candles without gloves on. I own a scent hound who relies on his nose more than his eyes, and citronella is one of the weapons in the arsenal of a hunt sab. I wouldn't spray mace in his eyes, so I'm certainly not going to spray citronella anywhere near his nose

Your example of the electric collar is one of the very few circumstances in which they may work and may not be just plain cruel. Once a dog learns where they are, and where they aren't, meant to be then s/he will never feel the thing again. It also falls into my definition of the dog being in imminent danger.

Unfortunately that's not how most people use those collars, and that's the major problem. If a dog knows that they have a perimeter that they cannot cross then they do understand the meaning of why their neck hurts- most dogs don't and therefore they learn nothing and just feel pain, fear and confusion.

Welcome to DF BTW

 

[TTT]

Strange how every time e-collars are criticised on any forum a brand-new members pops up and defends them :wacko:

I wouldn't use either a prong collar or an e-collar on any dog in any circumstances. Dogs can be trained by positive reinforcement alone, it's rubbish to say they can't. Guide Dogs, Assistance Dogs and many other skilled working dogs are trained without either of these 'aids'.

I'm not keen on thoughtless people using e-collars, but having visited a pub next to a railway line which has a pub dog, I agree that the safest method of preventing thoughtless customers letting him out into the carpark and into danger is a collar which works as his own personal electric fence. The boundaries have been set, and the collar is operated automatically when he approaches that boundary, thus discouraging him from wandering anywhere near the track
Now citronella collars - I wouldn't put one of THOSE on ANY dog. Citronella burns my skin. I can't handle the garden candles without gloves on. I own a scent hound who relies on his nose more than his eyes, and citronella is one of the weapons in the arsenal of a hunt sab. I wouldn't spray mace in his eyes, so I'm certainly not going to spray citronella anywhere near his nose

Your example of the electric collar is one of the very few circumstances in which they may work and may not be just plain cruel. Once a dog learns where they are, and where they aren't, meant to be then s/he will never feel the thing again. It also falls into my definition of the dog being in imminent danger.

Unfortunately that's not how most people use those collars, and that's the major problem. If a dog knows that they have a perimeter that they cannot cross then they do understand the meaning of why their neck hurts- most dogs don't and therefore they learn nothing and just feel pain, fear and confusion.

Welcome to DF BTW

Now, on the subject of e collars........what about the dogs who are incessant barkers? Can a self-regulating e collar (not the citronella type) save the life of a dog that would otherwise be at the vets for the needle? Now, I am being realistic here - some people have to work for a living and have to leave their dogs for a time every day to earn a living................what happens to the dog that barks and annoys the neighbours..............e collar or needle?

 

[Strix]

it should be a last resort TTT. I've trained a rescue staffy to stop his incessant racket. It took a couple of days, lots of patience, and lots of door opening and closing, but it worked

If somebody gets a dog and doesn't plan for a settling in period, should they have that dog in the first place?

The problem is that these contraptions are marketed as a quick fix

 

[Chaumsong]

TTT as Strix has pointed out needle or collar are not the only options, good old fashioned time consuming training will work every time. I've read that excuse many times from those that use the quick fix electric collar. The problem is that these collars don't actually solve anything, they usually just cause the dog to shut down completely

 

[eingana]

As far as I'm concerned, if I can train a GSD to stop barking incessantly, and they're one of the noisiest breeds out there, then electric shock collars or euthanasia should not be considered just for barking. Barking and aggression in a lot of cases are not linked at all, so why on earth would someone have their dog put to sleep just because they bark?

If the dog has a major issue which is what is causing the barking then you need to be looking at what is causing the issue, not confusing and scaring the dog still further by giving it random (as far as the dog is concerned) electric shocks.

 

[TTT]

The problem, as i see it, is that these issues are very emotive and many people throw their hands up in the air crying fou,l giving an opinion based on their emotions an thoughts, rather than experience and evidence.........

 

[eingana]

If you spend long enough working in rescue you come round to the thinking that the people who say, 'I'm sure you'll think I'm stupid for asking advice about this but...' are the last ones who are stupid. Is it more stupid to have an issue with your dog that's serious enough that you're considering whether you need to have the dog put to sleep and NOT seek advice about it or to address it, ask advice and opinions in an appropriate place and of people who may have some understanding of the issues you're facing and then try to work it through?

Every issue, particularly those serious enough that euthenasia is being considered, can be worked through to the point of at least working out all of the coping skills, learning, teaching and training things that one can try to prevent the euthenasia. That's the whole point of forums such as this isn't it? Support from people who have a huge depth and breadth of knowledge and experience with their animals?

 

[TTT]

Indeed forums are a place for people to express their views. Here is one - a well loved pet dog who suffers with with anxiety when left alone - manifesting in continuous barking which upsets the neighbours. Advice is sought (and implimented with commitment) from various well meaning people including dog warden and professional dog trainers who advise all the usual training techniques........... and yes, we can all list them, easy to train a dog not to bark when you are there, especially if you don't have to work etc ........but when owner not there to monitor and correct...............what then? Just like the 'electronic fence' that stops the above mentioned pub dog running onto the railway lines, just a few corrections from a self-activating e collar, preceded by a warning buzz can be very effective in training a dog not to bark........and therefore avoid the situation where a caring owner would otherwise face the options of either having to rehome a dog or take the responsible decision for the needle because they do not want to take the risk of rehoming a dog with someone (no matter how well vetted or, 'perfect'the new ideal home in the countryside etc to take the dog on only for the problem to continue/escalate then face the further stress of being 'moved on' or again, face the needle...........

 

[Dotty]

Horrible!

 

[Strix]

Punishing a dog for expressing anxiety does not remove the anxiety TTT, it increases it

 

[TTT]

Punishing a dog for expressing anxiety does not remove the anxiety TTT, it increases it

A self activating ecollar teaches the dog to cease barking, successfully. You may choose not to agree, of course, that is your right. I speak from experience, from what I have seen.