Whippet News Club Dog Of The Year

[sherry]

This topic is a bit ironic really as at Manton we raced advance and retard right up until we re opened this year so 40 years or so but on the re opening of the club we did a bit of a poll and it came out more people wanted ABCD as they wanted a definite two runs for heir money and some people felt if unfair for the faster dogs lets say to be giving away alot of yardage to maybe bigger dogs so we recently changed from advance and retard to ABCD!!! We also have always done a points system for the dogs that attended weekly with a top dog and top dog for the highest scoring over the year with an anual trophy. We also did the same for our midweek racing. This year mum has still carried on the points system dogs scoring on their weekly attendances, 4 points for any final win so the A winner and the D winner gets the same points regardless, 2 points for all heat winners and 1 point for attending, this years is still in progress but i do know its not the fastest dogs that are leading at the moment :thumbsup:

out of curiousity do u ever have any dogs that never ever win? was just thinking and posted on another thread i know it works 4 u but if u have a couple of dogs that have never ever won wudnt it b fairer for them to have a time handicap AS WELL as your abcde racing? even it was just one heat? i mean of course its up to u who race @ manton but im just giving out suggestions. :thumbsup:

was also thinking wud it be good if we had dog CLUB champion and BITCH club champion of the year? so as well as say winning the club top ten u wud get regocnised as a club champion?

 

[wild whippies]

What I think might be a fair and suitable format for scoring club racing.

All racing to be time handicap, advance and retard but seperated into groups A, B, C & D. If a dog consecutively wins it's group for 10 races, it must advance into the next group, the same applies if it looses (drops down into next group)

My reasoning, if there's any bias handicapping favouring a dog, it looses it's ability to win that group because it's overall points would be split between groups.

If a bitch is in season and finding time following a season, it gives a leeway period for that.

For those club dogs that are consistent, recognition is gained within their group.

Yd/lb won't work. It gives small dogs the advantage and clubs operating this will have dogs at the top regardless. Proof alone lies in events where the heavyweight dog withdraws and allocating points just for a run will encourage what could be considered risky situations.

If you want people to come club racing with their dog neither speed or weight should give an advantage. The focus should be on durability.

 

[sherry]

What I think might be a fair and suitable format for scoring club racing.
All racing to be time handicap, advance and retard but seperated into groups A, B, C & D. If a dog consecutively wins it's group for 10 races, it must advance into the next group, the same applies if it looses (drops down into next group)

My reasoning, if there's any bias handicapping favouring a dog, it looses it's ability to win that group because it's overall points would be split between groups.

If a bitch is in season and finding time following a season, it gives a leeway period for that.

For those club dogs that are consistent, recognition is gained within their group.

Yd/lb won't work. It gives small dogs the advantage and clubs operating this will have dogs at the top regardless. Proof alone lies in events where the heavyweight dog withdraws and allocating points just for a run will encourage what could be considered risky situations.

If you want people to come club racing with their dog neither speed or weight should give an advantage. The focus should be on durability.

we only have 10 dogs @ the rising sun and 3 of them belong to one person and another 3 belong to another person so we separate them so we cudnt do a group thing even if we wanted to as the owner cud have all 3 dogs in the same race? im sure points cud be awarded 4 both time handicapping and yds per 1lb races also scratch etc etc. weve got all year to come up with something workable. but wot u suggest with a group thing wudnt work 4 clubs with small numbers and that have 1 owner say running 3 dogs?

 

[sherry]

4 instance @ westerhope on sat there was only 6 dogs racing and 3 of those belonged to arthur so terry made 3 2 dog heats to separate arthurs 3. so u wudntb able 2 do a group thing there even if u wanted too. IMO something really simple is the way to go. points given to winners of a time handicap or an A final, points given for runner up position or B final win a heat win gains maybe 2 points so therefore c.d & e winners wud gain just 2 points then maybe 1 point just for turning up. all JMO but prob the easist way to do it. then if u have scratch races every week maybe points awarded seperate for those as not all clubs have scratch races but maybe top 3 only 4 that?

my suggestions.

say 10 points for a full handicap win or an A final

5 points for a runner up position or a B final win

2 points for a time handicap heat win or a C,D OR E final win

1 point for an appearance @ either club.

scratch races winner only gets the full 10 points but maybe 5 for racing?

if u have a dog that schoold all the pups etc @ your club maybe some kind of recognition 4 those dogs?

of course someone wud have to be willing to add the points up like Alison does for the whippet news top ten so everyone wud have to send that person their full results each month/week wotever. OR each club secretary cud tally their own points up but then u wud still need someone to compile a list unless chris wud b willing to do it as long as everyone sent her the points as well as the results?

 

[sherry]

p.s solo races wud only gain 1 point for the appearance?

 

[wild whippies]

Could you not just have Group A, B and C for your 2 dog races or do you mean these dogs are swapped around and would therefore be changing groups each week?

The problem with your points allocation is it favours the fastest dog. Which is no different from top ten open racing. If you want to attract newcomers AND retain them as well then I think they key is to favour devotion to attending week in and week out regardless of the dogs abilities.

For example, I have a little 18lb flying machine (I wish lol!) and a slow 28lber. I bring both to the club and race them. The fast 18lber wins it's group A or yd/lb handicap week in week out, clocking ten points at a time. The 28lber tends to be a consistent dog that rarely gets injured and races every week. I open race the 18lber (which is clocking points left right and centre) and when they're coming back after say an injury or a season, I can clock up 10 or 5 points at a time at the club as well. Meanwhile the 28lber is still going week in week out and getting nowhere.

There's another point too. If my 18lber is injured and laid off for 6 weeks, where's the incentive to take the slower dog, for one it doesn't stand a chance and I think a lot wouldn't be bothered gong to race the slow one anyway cos they'd only loose out on a meagre 6 points.

Now if your new to the game, only have the slow 28lber, how long is it going to take where you'll think bugger it I'll stay at home?

 

[sherry]

in our time handicap u get pulled 3 yards when u win 2 yards when u come 2nd and u only gain half a yard if u win a heat and a yard if u lose therefore all dogs get an equal chance of winning every week. also we have fair handicappers and if a dog doesnt @ least win a heat within a few weeks its mark wud get lifted.

yes we swap heats about every week otherwise u may b racing the same dog all along. also the way ive said it is if u race every week u gain points. maybe there cud b some kind of award for the dog thats actually raced in the most handicaps? also dogs and bitches cud b separate as u have to take into account bitches seasons.

ok have just re read your post and see u r talking about abcde racing mainly am i right?

 

[wild whippies]

Just had another thought. If you did have a small club with groups A, B and C etc. Racer's might actually be tempted to travel and run with that club because they may well stand a better chance of winning their group. For example if you didn't have a group D but I came along with my slow 28lber, I could do rather well!

Just a query, would it have to be a whippet that's allowed to gain points? Quite a few clubs race lurchers.

 

[sherry]

@ the north east clubs i cudnt see a group thing working @ all. i do agree that any dog that races shud b able to take part but maybe lurchers as well as scratch dogs cud have a seperate comp maybe a top 5 for those?

if u come to the rising sun or westerhope with your fast 18lber and your slower 28lber then your slower dog wud get the bigger mark :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

in our time handicap u get pulled 3 yards when u win 2 yards when u come 2nd and u only gain half a yard if u win a heat and a yard if u lose therefore all dogs get an equal chance of winning every week. also we have fair handicappers and if a dog doesnt @ least win a heat within a few weeks its mark wud get lifted.yes we swap heats about every week otherwise u may b racing the same dog all along. also the way ive said it is if u race every week u gain points. maybe there cud b some kind of award for the dog thats actually raced in the most handicaps? also dogs and bitches cud b separate as u have to take into account bitches seasons.

ok have just re read your post and see u r talking about abcde racing mainly am i right?

Any format that isn't running on a time handicap, whether it's yd/lb or an ABCDE with points favouring the higher groups. If it was the same points awarded for a Group win then that might be better. i.e. Group A winner wins ten points as does Group B, Group C and so on.

I think your getting my point of view though with you saying about rewarding most runs in a club, but theoretically if the points didn't favour the fastest groups or weight and was more tighter or the same, those devoted dogs should be getting recognition.

I honestly don't know what format would work best by the way, just throwing ideas around! :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

Originally I thought something extremely simple. 1 run = 1 point.

More you run at the club the more points you get, doesn't matter if you win or loose.

Furthermore it might persuade you to get more dogs!! (w00t)

Er if this takes off Vicky can you put 21 dogs down for Gin Pit wed night racing next year? Law of averages says I've got a chance lol!!! (w00t)

 

[DavidH]

is the competition based on yd/lb or time handicap ?

if yd/lb open winners should be excluded.

a very good idea :thumbsup:

think if open dogs are excluded its not going to help boost attendances at clubs , think time handicapping with adv and ret is best but yd / lb adv and ret can also work by races being graded and pups getting an extra lift first time up

think there should also be min of 4 dogs in a race

but if open class dogs run,is this not defeating the what its about (club dogs ) :wacko:

initially it was about CLUBS and how to boost attendances getting racers back to supporting the clubs if dogs are excluded because they are open class there will be even less attendances at clubs than there are now, if clubs run an advance and retard or a graded system every dog at some stage should have a win

We used to have a 3 legged dog "GET CARTER " at Liverpool WRC in the 8o's who won his fair share of trophies club raciing against open class dogs

yes, folks would maybe fitten there open class dogs at club. but cannot see folks running open dogs weekday and weekends. what ever,i am sure something will be sorted to try and boost clubs and someone can pick at the bones whats on here for the best ideas :luck: :luck: :thumbsup:

 

[Trojan]

This topic is a bit ironic really as at Manton we raced advance and retard right up until we re opened this year so 40 years or so but on the re opening of the club we did a bit of a poll and it came out more people wanted ABCD as they wanted a definite two runs for their money and some people felt if unfair for the faster dogs lets say to be giving away alot of yardage to maybe bigger dogs so we recently changed from advance and retard to ABCD!!! We also have always done a points system for the dogs that attended weekly with a top dog and top dog for the highest scoring over the year with an anual trophy. We also did the same for our midweek racing. This year mum has still carried on the points system dogs scoring on their weekly attendances, 4 points for any final win so the A winner and the D winner gets the same points regardless, 2 points for all heat winners and 1 point for attending, this years is still in progress but i do know its not the fastest dogs that are leading at the moment :thumbsup:

Same points for ANY final win :thumbsup:

 

[sherry]

Originally I thought something extremely simple. 1 run = 1 point.More you run at the club the more points you get, doesn't matter if you win or loose.

Furthermore it might persuade you to get more dogs!! (w00t)

Er if this takes off Vicky can you put 21 dogs down for Gin Pit wed night racing next year? Law of averages says I've got a chance lol!!! (w00t)

IMO thats a great idea jaqs run in any handicap gain 1 point or 5 points or wotever. i know some clubs dont run all year ( we do in the north east region) some change 2 evenings ( we dont) dont know how we cud get around that one as we race all year when we can unless we r all away @ devon or scotland or wotever we race all winter with our biggest attendances normally dec/jan when theres no open racing on @ all but i know the likes of aycliffe have two months break dec/jan we only cancel if the weather is bad. so wot can we do if some clubs race all year and some dont??? but the 1 point or 5 points or wotever just 4 racing IMO is great. :thumbsup:

 

[mollyxx]

What about the dogs with the most number of appearances run off on a timed handicap at a deemed racing event, or if one dog has the most appearances then it will win! After all, its about the dogs that support the clubs week in and week out. Making it very easy with no complications. Just another idea!!!!

 

[weathergirls]

What about the dogs with the most number of appearances run off on a timed handicap at a deemed racing event, or if one dog has the most appearances then it will win! After all, its about the dogs that support the clubs week in and week out. Making it very easy with no complications. Just another idea!!!!

that sounds about the best solution will be fair all round but maybe stipulate a start and end date e,g 1st March till 30th September as not all clubs run all year plus something for the oldie who trains the most youngsters

 

[Fleesh]

What about the dogs with the most number of appearances run off on a timed handicap at a deemed racing event, or if one dog has the most appearances then it will win! After all, its about the dogs that support the clubs week in and week out. Making it very easy with no complications. Just another idea!!!!

that sounds about the best solution will be fair all round but maybe stipulate a start and end date e,g 1st March till 30th September as not all clubs run all year plus something for the oldie who trains the most youngsters

Even some club racers keep bitches off for 12 weeks following season, this could be 15 weeks less attendance than the dogs.

I'm sure that even those racing at club level like to be competitive too so points for wins rather than for turning up would be more appealing and as previously mentioned club dogs attend all year round whereas open dogs will miss weeks.

If several dogs attend every week they'll all have the same number of attendances also some clubs cancel if there is a local open on or for a major championship which means less chances of appearance points for those dogs.

The idea of a 'season finale' is great though :thumbsup:

 

[mollyxx]

What about the dogs with the most number of appearances run off on a timed handicap at a deemed racing event, or if one dog has the most appearances then it will win! After all, its about the dogs that support the clubs week in and week out. Making it very easy with no complications. Just another idea!!!!

that sounds about the best solution will be fair all round but maybe stipulate a start and end date e,g 1st March till 30th September as not all clubs run all year plus something for the oldie who trains the most youngsters

Even some club racers keep bitches off for 12 weeks following season, this could be 15 weeks less attendance than the dogs.

I'm sure that even those racing at club level like to be competitive too so points for wins rather than for turning up would be more appealing and as previously mentioned club dogs attend all year round whereas open dogs will miss weeks.

If several dogs attend every week they'll all have the same number of attendances also some clubs cancel if there is a local open on or for a major championship which means less chances of appearance points for those dogs.

The idea of a 'season finale' is great though :thumbsup:

Not many bitches are off that long through seasons, dogs don't get many chances over bitches look at the Top Ten over the years, so I don't think it will be such a big problem club racing.

I don't want it to be too competative, its meant for ALL dogs of ALL levels, the faster dogs are looked after on the open scene, if you have a dog that can't win a handicap, then they will never have a chance if you make it too competative.

As for 'local opens'....this is what the competition is all about, keeping the clubs going, atracting more dogs to the clubs (and keeping them there) not going to the local opens (that's where the open dogs are going to be)...hopefully the club numbers may increase in time, therefore there will be enough members to still hold the handicap when opens are on.

A Velvet Presentation Jacket, annual Trophy and one years free subscription to w news, also a prize for the dog who has put in a lot of work 'training up' youngsters throughout the year!

Maybe something for the runner up, or if a race is made up of several dogs tied on points, or the eventual finalists...then something for them all sounds good (maybe bags of dog food)!!

 

[sherry]

we get the biggest attendances @ both clubs between sept and march so i personally dont think thats fair. loads of us from here go to both devon and scotland so theres 4 h/caps that wud b off straight away due to us all being away. maybe there cud b some kind of percentage for those clubs that dont race all year and the likes of those that do? and sometimes u HAVE to cancel due to the weather

 

[mollyxx]

I don't want to make it complicated, if someone is away, then maybe someone else could run the club at that time.....

It ought to be from Jan 1st - Dec 31st, so which ever club can run the most weeks then those club dogs will benefit most.

We are trying to attract dogs to clubs and not to open racing, the club dogs maybe won't want to go to Devon or Scotland.

If things are to change, then it has to change to suit the club dogs, is it fair that they should only fit in when it suits?