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Whippet / Cavalier X ...

masta i agree , there probably is as much thought going into breeding these cross breeds as there is into breeding some pedigrees but that goes on both sides there are good breeders and bad breeders but a person looking to buy a pedigree can usually do some research into the breeder and there lines to hopefully minimise the risks of buying an unhealthy puppy. How can you do that with a cross bred dog ?

Maybe im cynical but this fashion seems to be a puppy farmer and back yard breeders dream come true .

Incidentally i looked up Tudor hounds but i havent found anything yet :(
 
natty said:
masta i agree , there probably is as much thought going into breeding these cross breeds as there is into breeding some pedigrees but that goes on both sides there are good breeders and bad breeders but a person looking to buy a pedigree can usually do some research into the breeder and there lines to hopefully minimise the risks of buying an unhealthy puppy. How can you do that with a cross bred dog ? Maybe im cynical but this fashion seems to be a puppy farmer and back yard breeders dream come true .

Incidentally i looked up Tudor hounds but i havent found anything yet :(

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Well, my dogs breeder searched for 8 years to find suitable parents for these 'Tudor Hounds', so a lot of thought, time and patience went into selecting healthy parents with the right size, frame, temperament, etc. She also made sure that she chose a Cavalier with no history of heart problems in its heredity, as she is fully aware of this health defect.

I agree that there are good and bad breeders on both sides of the fence, and there are plenty of people capitalizing on this 'fad', however, I as a responsible person and animal lover, did not go into this haphazardly. I researched breeds and asked questions for approx. a year before buying Bella, and I quizzed her breeder very carefully before agreeing to buy her.

I too looked up 'Tudor Hounds' on the WWW and didn't find anything, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I happen to rate Bella's breeder very highly, as we spent a wonderful afternoon together last Sunday. She even has an owl sanctuary and breeds Jack Russells for the Queens groundskeeper!!!
 
Thats excellent that your breeder has started off with good stock and also that you did your research :)

I really hope the other breeders of mixes will take as much care with there stock and i wish more breeders of pedigrees did that too.

I have a labrador i bought her last year , not as a puppy but as a rehomer. I asked the owner if the parents had been hipscored and she said yes they came from a good breeder and both parents were tested for both hip problems and eye problems . I didnt doubt this as i thought it was something most breeders would do.

I bought the dog and the lady gave me an envelope with her pedigree papers in , i wasnt bothered as i only wanted her as a pet and i could see by looking at her she wasnt going to be a show dog.

some weeks later i opened the envelope and took a peek at her papers out of curiosity and i descovered that on her KC registration papers it has her fathers hip score and her mothers eye test results .

hip score is over 50 and the mother is affected by a heriditory eye disorder.

I was stunned i couldnt belive a breeder would breed from 2 dogs so badly affected . It really is a case of buyer beware but most of all im angry that a breeder would knowingly breed from dogs like that , i cant see any reason too. Its not like labradors are rare :(
 
sharron said:
Accidents happen but to go and breed two different breeds of dog is wrong. Like what has already been said before there are 100's if not 100.000's of cross breed dogs already looking for loving home so why add to this. :rant:

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I agree that owning a rescue dog is preferable, and that's why I volunteer at the Blue Cross in Southampton, because of my love of these animals, but I personally wanted my first dog to be a puppy.

I even work part time at a dog kennels (which is where I got the experience needed before owning a dog of my own).

But why should I have to buy a puppy or adult dog from a shelter via donation because it's a cross-breed? Why can't I buy a new mongrel puppy, just like the rest of you buy your new pedigree puppies? It's the same thing, we just choose to buy our dogs from a very young age because it fulfills a need within us.

I very much intend to add to my doggy brood in a year or two, and will be looking for a shelter dog, but this time I wanted the chance to mould a puppy and raise her in my own way.
 
your puppy is absolutely lovely. what an unusual mix of breeds - I wonder what the advantage of the mix was, that they bred it on purpose and called it a tudor hound? Obviously it will be a beautiful dog - congratulations! :wub:

It is hard to me to see puppies being bred for sale whilst there are so many homeless dogs.

At the same time, people getting all snotty about 'labradoodles' also seems closed minded.

Having dogs reminds me of having children - absolutely everyone has an opinion and absolutely everyone thinks they know best!
 
masta said:
i'm sure there will just as much thought going into their breeding as some pure breds,
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I really cannot see how they can do as much research when you are breeding from 2 different pure breeds. When breeders research a pure bred litter - they will be looking at a dog that will compliment and improve any charcteristics in their bitch which they think are lacking.

When crossing 2 different breeds, all you can look at is whether each dog is a good specimen, ensuring it's healthy and then it's temperament.

It's not as though you look at the whippet bitch and think 'oh she's a bit short coupled' - lets mate her to a cavalier is it??

The only exception to this are lurcher breeders - which is completely different from just a cross of two entirely breeds. As you can line breed in lurchers.

if i could get the bet i would be backing a weeks wage on a labradoodle class at crufts in 10 years time i think the fact that they are charging these prices and selling ( iv'e not seen any ads for designer crosses going"cheap") them says something
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Not meaning to be rude Masta, but you must have very limited knowledge of the workings of the Kennel Club to think a cross breed would be at all likely to have breed classes at a Champ show in 10 years!! Pure breeds from other countries eg Azawakhs haven't got breed classes yet - it takes years to get a breed standard etc etc
 
masta said:
i think its a bit high and mighty to imply that anyone breeding these dogs are throwing them together willy nilly i'm sure there will just as much thought going into their breeding as some pure breds, lets face it why have cavaliers got heart problems? should not all of the implied "proper breeders" have eradicated the trait by now or is it that they are still being bred with certain health problems because of line protection? ie the show ring why is it always how much a pup cost that seems to upset everyone if a breeder believes they are worth that amount is that not their perogative to charge itas for the term mongrel all of our dogs ancestors were mongrels once, if i could get the bet i would be backing a weeks wage on a labradoodle class at crufts in 10 years time i think the fact that they are charging these prices and selling ( iv'e not seen any ads for designer crosses going"cheap") them says something

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I totally agree with you.

luvlyjubly77 said:
I agree that owning a rescue dog is preferable, and that's why I volunteer at the Blue Cross in Southampton, because of my love of these animals, but I personally wanted my first dog to be a puppy.
I even work part time at a dog kennels (which is where I got the experience needed before owning a dog of my own).

But why should I have to buy a puppy or adult dog from a shelter via donation because it's a cross-breed? Why can't I buy a new mongrel puppy, just like the rest of you buy your new pedigree puppies? It's the same thing, we just choose to buy our dogs from a very young age because it fulfills a need within us.

I very much intend to add to my doggy brood in a year or two, and will be looking for a shelter dog, but this time I wanted the chance to mould a puppy and raise her in my own way.

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I completely agree with your statement too.

Best of luck with your pup she's beautiful. :*
 
if u can breed the calvalier with a whippet,,and the bitch can the pups with no problems,,then ur already one up on some off the pure breeds ,,how many off them have to be cut open giving birth ,mmmmmmmmmmm

u wont find out till u try i guess,,,

i guess some people on here still think the world is flat :- " :- " :- " :D :D :D
 
i don't think there should be a delibrate cross mating,especailly as there is enough cross breeds in rescues,don't get me wrong theres also pedigrees that end up in rescues too.

i am very please you are happy with her,and hope you have many happy years with her :thumbsup: :wub: and lets hope there is more people like you that will give these dogs a loving,caring home :huggles: and hopefully the breeder will be there for the dogs rest of its life(taking the dog back anytime for any reason)
 
daledogs said:
i don't think there should be a delibrate cross mating,especailly as there is enough cross breeds in rescues,don't get me wrong theres also pedigrees that end up in rescues too.i am very please you are happy with her,and hope you have many  happy years with her :thumbsup:   :wub:   and lets hope there is more people like you that will give these dogs a loving,caring home :huggles: and hopefully the breeder will be there for the dogs rest of its life(taking the dog back anytime for any reason)

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But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.
 
BeeJay said:
daledogs said:
i don't think there should be a delibrate cross mating,especailly as there is enough cross breeds in rescues,don't get me wrong theres also pedigrees that end up in rescues too.i am very please you are happy with her,and hope you have many  happy years with her :thumbsup:   :wub:   and lets hope there is more people like you that will give these dogs a loving,caring home :huggles: and hopefully the breeder will be there for the dogs rest of its life(taking the dog back anytime for any reason)

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But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.

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i do know were you are coming from Barbara :thumbsup: i'm trying to explain that putting two different pedigree dogs together with out a purpose,if you see what i mean :wacko: :wacko: ,with lurchers and non ped whippets they are usually bred for racing and working,but also make lovely pets.

there will always be crossbred puppies, lets hope there will always be good homes for them :thumbsup:

this is only just a little personal opinion,not turning this into a issue, i usually keep my opinions to myself :lol: :lol: .i,m not having a 'go' at anyone,by all means :teehee: :teehee:

look forward in seeing how they turn out :thumbsup: :wub:
 
~JO~ said:
masta said:
i'm sure there will just as much thought going into their breeding as some pure breds,
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I really cannot see how they can do as much research when you are breeding from 2 different pure breeds. When breeders research a pure bred litter - they will be looking at a dog that will compliment and improve any charcteristics in their bitch which they think are lacking.

When crossing 2 different breeds, all you can look at is whether each dog is a good specimen, ensuring it's healthy and then it's temperament.

It's not as though you look at the whippet bitch and think 'oh she's a bit short coupled' - lets mate her to a cavalier is it??

The only exception to this are lurcher breeders - which is completely different from just a cross of two entirely breeds. As you can line breed in lurchers.

if i could get the bet i would be backing a weeks wage on a labradoodle class at crufts in 10 years time i think the fact that they are charging these prices and selling ( iv'e not seen any ads for designer crosses going"cheap") them says something
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Not meaning to be rude Masta, but you must have very limited knowledge of the workings of the Kennel Club to think a cross breed would be at all likely to have breed classes at a Champ show in 10 years!! Pure breeds from other countries eg Azawakhs haven't got breed classes yet - it takes years to get a breed standard etc etc

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i believe from personaly researching these so called designer dogs that most of the pairings have had quite careful thought/research re temperament,health etc (i may be wrong but i believe the poodle x labs etc were instigated by the guide dog society) quite different from most pure breds were Appearance is the first criterion - compliment and improve, hence why you often see a pup advertised as "pet only" also why we still have inherent problems in lots of pure breeds. i dont take your comments as being rude and your quite right i have very limited knowledge of the KC but i have been very interested by these dogs and let me state now that i have two pedigree whippets and have no desire to own or breed these dogs, but i have seen the interest and PR surrounding these breeds and would think the sheer weight of ownership and interest will quicken the process, i maybe wrong.

You may have the answer to this how long did it take Parson russell terrier (purebreed?) to be KC registered?
 
I know for a fact you can get puppy cross breeds from rescue kennels , so no one has to breed them on purpose :rant: You might want a certain X , but what about the rest of the litter ?

Really people amaze me , wanting to breed new `breeds ` there are plenty out there without `making up new ones `

££ s that s what its all about as far as Im concerned :angry:

and yes, I had a mongrel as a child , bit my dad ( and others) and was put to sleep :( Both parents known as loving , family dogs too
 
JAX said:
I know for a fact you can get puppy cross breeds from rescue kennels , so no one has to breed them on purpose  :rant:   You might want a certain X , but what about the rest of the litter ?

Really people amaze me , wanting to breed new `breeds ` there are plenty out there without `making up new ones `

££ s that s what its all about as far as Im concerned  :angry:

and yes, I had a mongrel  as a child , bit my dad ( and others)  and was put to sleep  :(   Both parents known  as loving , family dogs too

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Maybe they dont want a puppy from a rescue kennel, maybe they want to breed or buy a certain cross that appeals to them in the same way people that choice with pure breedss, if the rationale was to empty rescue homes why bother breeding at all its personal choice it is not allway s about ££££

as for what happens to the rest ive not heard reports from the RSPCA etc that they are being overwhelmed by "puggles" etc
 
hmmm. how many staffy x's, terrier x's, lab x's etc etc do you see in rescue? hundreds :(

its all well and good, breeding a x because you like the idea, and if you've got homes for them all, great. but far too many people DO NOT THINK LIKE THAT!

look at your average puppy farmer...in order not to exceed their kc litter registration limit (6) and so as to not lose 'income', they alternately breed 1 ped litter, then 1 x ltter and so on :rant:

and say if you do breed x's for maybe working purposes, ok, great. what happens if the dog isnt up to scratch? how many terrier/lurcher types do we hear of being dumped/killed etc etc by, only for example, travellers?

i'm not saying it doesnt happen to peds, but a true, dedicated breeder, having done the best to ensure their pups are healthy, sound, breed standard, is NOT likely to refuse to take back one that has fallen on hard times. for those that wont get taken back, there is breed rescue, where they can be rehomed by people with experience of that particular breed.

what of x's, or outright mongrel pups?

what size will it grow to? unknown

what temperament? unknown

health problems? unknown
 
i think the tudor hounds are lovely looking dogs

no one seems to think bad of other cross breeds llike whippet ,greyhounds

i think you can have health problems in all dogs ,i know of very well bred ch whippets that have been bred and one of the litter had so many healh issues where as others in the line had been fine with many ch in the lines going way back

i also have a friend who bought from a breede rwho shows every year at crufts

paid a lot of money for the pup and the pup has cost the insurance company thousands and the dog is under two years old ,that breeder would never breed from anything that was not 100%
 
But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.




i do know were you are coming from Barbara :thumbsup: i'm trying to explain that putting two different pedigree dogs together with out a purpose,if you see what i mean :wacko: :wacko: ,with lurchers and non ped whippets they are usually bred for racing and working,but also make lovely pets.

there will always be crossbred puppies, lets hope there will always be good homes for them :thumbsup:

this is only just a little personal opinion,not turning this into a issue, i usually keep my opinions to myself :lol: :lol: .i,m not having a 'go' at anyone,by all means :teehee: :teehee:

look forward in seeing how they turn out :thumbsup: :wub:






Not getting at you Dale. I know that I quoted you but you are only saying what a lot of other people have re this topic.
 
MOST designer dogs are produced by puppy farms. They are produced purely for profit. Few years ago it was all the rage to have shi tzu X maltese and friend of mine wanted one. She called the puppy farm which advertised them, and got a cute ball of fluff. I was bit suspicious because it was not white with dark patches as these crosses usually are, but sort of pale apricot, and not as soft as I would expect. Anyway it grew to the size of mini poodle, and was absolutely mad, dirty, noisy creature. My guess it was miniature poodle X West Highland. Basically, buying a dog without papers you can never be sure what you are really getting.

If somebody has to wait 8 years to find the right parents to breed a cross bred litter, that sounds fishy to me. What I would like to know is what is this woman going to do now that she has her perfect Whippet and cavalier? Is she just going to be churning pups from them? Or has she kept one from this litter and is she planning to breed from her? If so what to? If she kept a pair and is planning to breed from them she is going to find that although these 2 look similar, their pups will be a very mixed bag, some looking like Whippets, some like cavaliers. To start a new breed (which breeds true) takes at least 20 years, heaps of money, and you need large kennels and large number of dogs, to have reasonable genetic pool. The blind association was able to do that, but it would be impossible for ordinary person living in suburb.

The thing is I cannot see any benefit in introducing Cavalier characteristics into a Whippet. I can see the benefit of crossing such a breed as a pug with another breed to elongate their noses and improve their ability to breath. But that should be done by very experienced pug breeder and the other breed would have to be chosen very carefully.

And another thing; absolutely anybody can decide to breed "designer dogs", all what they need is to get bitch and a dog, leave them in the backyard and flog the pups. In OZ designer pups sell for double - triple what I sell my Whippet pups. At these prices most of the people buying them are wealthy people who are buying themselves a status symbol and conversation piece for their next dinner party. When the dog pees on their carpet and eats a leg from the table, it is swiftly re-located outside, and once the kids get bored with it, it goes into the pound. And yes, the same type of people also come to look at my pups, but I would not sell them one.

But you are obviously very happy with your puppy, and that is all what matters. :cheers:

But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.
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Yes, but they are bred for purpose other than making money. They are bred by people involved in the racing etc.
 
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BeeJay said:
daledogs said:
i don't think there should be a delibrate cross mating,especailly as there is enough cross breeds in rescues,don't get me wrong theres also pedigrees that end up in rescues too.i am very please you are happy with her,and hope you have many  happy years with her :thumbsup:   :wub:   and lets hope there is more people like you that will give these dogs a loving,caring home :huggles: and hopefully the breeder will be there for the dogs rest of its life(taking the dog back anytime for any reason)

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But then that would rule out non peddie racing whippets and lurchers, also some of the working terriers. ALL far superior in their ability to perform the jobs for which they were bred than their KC reg counterparts. That should tell us summat important about how we are breeding KC reg dogs IMO.

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am i right in thinking that you are suggesting non ped whippets are superior at racing/hunting than pedigree whippets???? is that true??? :blink:
 
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Maybe they dont want a puppy from a rescue kennel, maybe they want to breed or buy a certain cross that appeals to them in the same way people that choice with pure breedss, if the rationale was to empty rescue homes why bother breeding at all its personal choice it is not allway s about ££££

as for what happens to the rest ive not heard reports from the RSPCA etc that they are being overwhelmed by "puggles" etc




:rant: :rant: Why do people object to paying for a crossbreed at a rescue kennels, yet will pay hundreds to buy a MONGREL- because that's what these designer dogs are- from puppy farmers??? :rant: :rant: I know this for a fact as I help a local santuary :(
 
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