vain hope or plain stupid?

[Mad Murphy]

Honestly sometimes I get so angry with people.
I know some people here chose not to vaccinate and use titre testing and that is a soild sensible way to go if you dont like the idea of vaccines but...

Yesterday I read a post about a dog who had (allegedly) had a reaction to the lepto4 vaccine but the owners had said he recovered and they never returned to the vet so nothing can be proved one way or the other.

lepto is a bacterial infection and comes in various strains so the vaccine wont cover everything. We also know that with every medication or treatment there is a risk of side effect and that goes for everything from an asprin to major surgery. But reading the comments on such posts drives me nuts and I have to avoid them .. Yesterday I gave in and clicked to read the comments.

People were saying the owner should sue , well thats all well and good but they have no proof because they didnt take the dog back to any vet or get any blood work done.

Then came the host of comments that in future the 'best' way to treat the dog would be with Diatomaceous Earth or burning sage to 'purify' some said give the dog CBD oil and you never need vaccinate for anything again..

Seriously is this vain hope or just stupidity.? I have no doubt herbs can help sometimes and I do use homeopathic remedies myself but in the right hands and with a planned course of treatment by a trained professional not just a random use of herbs as and when a dog or person gets sick.
The thing is this is not a cure for an ingrowing nail or athletes foot, parvo, distemper, and lepto are killers and people are seriously considering burning sage and giving CBD oil to cure or prevent them.
Why do they chose to believe a random stranger on internet rather than proper medical and scientific reserch?

 

[JudyN]

Some of the stupidity I see online drives me mad Trouble is, for every considered report in a nice neat tidy font pointing out the benefits ov vaccination, there's 10 more in large fonts and bright colours full of anecdotes and littered with exclamation marks. Guess which ones are more reliable?

I was also told that the lepto vaccine was useless because there are so many different strains of lepto. That logic is like saying that the measles vaccine is useless because there are so many childhood diseases. My vet said that before there was a vaccination for lepto he saw several dogs die of it, and since the vaccine came in he hasn't seen one case of it in vaccinated dogs and had never seen any bad reactions.

We need to educate children in school to think, to analyse critically what they see online and hear what others say. That's becoming more and more essential in a world where people happily declare that we don't need experts or science...

 

[JoanneF]

I like the Data O'Briain quote -

I'm sorry, 'herbal medicine', "Oh, herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!" Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri, so knock yourselves out.

 

[Mad Murphy]

@JudyN we live in a very water rich area in the last 10 years several dogs and two humans have died of lepto after being exposed to or swimming in infected water. Its just not worth the risk for me or Murphy.

 

[Caro Perry]

Harri "came" with the more restricted Lepto vaccination. The vet strongly recommended Lepto4. I did some reading and saw the horror stories and made the decision to re-vaccinate. We are right next to farm buildings, rats are 10 a penny around here and there are plenty of areas of standing water so the risks are there.

Critical thinking is a dying art - take a contrary view on FB or a forum and you just get flamed to pieces.

 

[Mad Murphy]

We need to educate children in school to think, to analyse critically what they see online and hear what others say. That's becoming more and more essential in a world where people happily declare that we don't need experts or science...

I have this hanging in my loo to read contemplate and remind myself...It works on many levels.

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

― Buddha Siddhartha Guatama Shakyamuni

 

[merlina]

It's complicated as they say. On the one hand you see young dogs in rescue die of parvo...horrible and not to be brutal about it causes havoc in kennels and massive expense moving and isolating dogs who might be exposed. Money that could save other dogs. It's rare to see distemper now- mainly because of the vac programme. Lepto is another thing. It's more like flu in that the agent mutates rapidly according to our vet and local University Vets Teaching Hosp. Also so long as it's diagnosed promptly, the symptoms can be treated with the good survival rate. (This is also true in humans). And not to set the cat amongst the pigeons I don't vaccinate my current spaniel against it because 1. he refuses to enter water and because our last spaniel boy had an horrendous reaction to the lepto vaccine at the injection site. Big lump came up within 24 hours. Got so hard and sinister my vet was on the point of biopsying it when it started to resolve- that's three months later. So like I said- it's complicated and much of the evidence itself is under or badly reported. I don't have any answers.

 

[Mad Murphy]

@merlina I fully understand what youre saying youve had a previous reaction and I can understand if your dog is not exposed to lepto risiks it then maybe its ok. Here weve seen it kill because by the time people realise its not just a tummy upset or a passing virus its too late.
Parvo and distemper are another matter, Ive seen both kill and its something you never forget. I do wonder how long before we see a big outbreak of one of these due to the anti vaccs brigade.
The people who run around giving out silly advice really get me . Linking it back to another thread about creulty I cant help but wonder how many of the people we see being charged with neglect tried home remedies on the advice of the social media gurus.

 

[leashedForLife]

.


There are times when home treatment is just fine, it’s generally in those 1st-aid sort of circs, when the dog or person, whatever species, has a minor cut, an insect bite, bruises from a fall, etc -
But there are also times when HOME TREATMENT is simply insane, & i am often astounded that folks even attempt it.

I’m a dam*ed good home nurse, with many years experience of human & nonhuman care, & i still see ppl try things that I wouldn’t ever consider... some of the most shocking have been home-Tx cases that later come to Dr Pol for help.
Doc Pol is a Dutchman who runs a large vet-practice in Michigan, & Nat’l Geo broadcasts a long-running series showing the challenges & joys of a mixed practice, caring for large animals [livestock is now about 40% of his caseload] & small - dogs, cats, & other common pets; he also sees exotics, as he is in rural MI, & there are no convenient exotic specialists to be had, for many many miles.

There was one home-Tx case recently, a dog with a compound fracture in the lower hind leg - the owners wrapped it in gauze, & covered the gauze with duct-tape to waterproof it.

It was almost a week later that they brought him to the surgery. // The stench when they unwrapped that festering mess must have been incredible - the poor dog was in agony, & pus wept from it in a dozen places. Who would do that?!...


I often have to persuade ppl that the very 1st port of call, when a pet’s behavior suddenly changes, is the VET’S exam room. They are firmly convinced that the dog [or cat, or horse, or parrot...] is “just misbehaving”.
Aggression is often, at its root, fear manifested - & pain makes anyone vulnerable & defensive. Aggro is also commonly associated with low thyroid hormones, one of the cheapest fixes in the pharmacopeia.
A formerly-housetrained pet who suddenly begins to pee or poop indoors often has a UTI, bladder gravel, inflamed colon, or what-have-U - they aren’t just being contrary.

I’d rather err on the side of caution - go to my vet & find it isn’t a vet issue, vs not go, while the unaddressed issue gets worse. The former is a mild embarrassment, while the latter could have major consequences.

- terry

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[Nanny71]

Rightly or wrongly I vaccinate. He is too precious to risk. We have had a massive increase in childhood diseases in the UK because of some people against vaccination and ignoring the lives that were lost to these supposedly innocuous childhood ailments in the past.
Vaccination is not just a money saving exercise it is to improve health.