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The Kennel Club Wants "avoiding Action"

dragonfly

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A KC press release dropped through my door the other morning along with a defensive letter from the KC regarding all the recent bad publicity surrounding pedigree dogs.

I was encouraged by the odd ray of light appearing, such as this statement near the beginning of their letter.

[SIZE=14pt]“.....we need to accept that this is not a problem for a few breeds only – the challenge is going to continue and grow and ALL breeds (their capitals) will eventually be affected unless we all take avoiding action now......”[/SIZE] :eek:

Well done KC I thought, you've noticed that there is a time bomb ticking. Why then is the question and answer section that accompanies the letter so incredibly backward looking and ill written?

Here is a sample:-

Q. Why doesn’t the Kennel Club ban inbreeding?

A. There is a difference between ‘in’ breeding and ‘line’ breeding.   Inbreeding was practiced in Victorian times to produce a particular breed, however, it is now uncommon.

Line breeding is very different and is where animals are bred for particular (healthy) characteristics. If a dog is line bred it may appear more than once in a pedigree and so names within generations will be repeated. That does not mean that the dogs are likely to be unhealthy.  That is far from the case.

Their own genetics consultant, Jeff Sampson states frequently in publicly available documents that he does NOT recognise a difference between inbreeding and line breeding. So who wrote the Q and As for them.

Their statements are woolly, ill written and poorly informed..

Why can't they just wake up, smell the coffee and get a few sensible rules in place. Their excuse that breeders will leave the KC in droves and set up their own societies is patently ridiculous and shows that they put the survival of the KC above the health of pedigree dogs! How very sad.

Here is what I would like to see them do before it is too late

~Only allow the registration of litters with an inbreeding co-efficient of 3% or lower. (Other KC s are doing this, why not ours?)

~ Set up their database so that breeders can go and look at the co-efficients to help them plan matings.

~Ban sibling matings, parent x offspring matings and grandparent x grandchild matings.

~Insist that all breeding stock should be micro chipped and tested for any disease, for which there is a test available, that is present in the breed. Institute a passport system & web site showing the test results for all breeders to see.

~Roll out the existing education programme for breeders of pedigree dogs. Make genetics seminars readily available to all breeders.

~Tackle the problem of Popular Sire Syndrome by setting a limit on the number of bitches they can cover.

~Set a minimum age for the use of breeding animals at stud.

~Insist that breeders obtain a certificate of health from a vet within a month before a mating

~Implement a strategy to ensure that registrations are accurate, by DNA if necessary. At the moment there are NO checks that the sire and dam named on litter registration forms are correct.

I do not think that breeders with closely bred dogs currently in the ring or as breeding stock should be penalised under a new system or in the ring in any way. The KC needs the full support of its customers.

Most of the above is already in train in other KCs around Europe

_________________________________________________________________________

Our KC can set its own rules, their leaders go to the same seminars as those from other countries, They are well aware that there are major problems stacking up in pedigree dogs, so why are they stuck in the Victorian age. If they don't do something similar to the above then what is the point of their statement.

[SIZE=14pt][/SIZE]

“..... this is not a problem for a few breeds only – the challenge is going to continue and grow and ALL breeds (their capitals) will eventually be affected unless we all take avoiding action now......”

Are others as concerned as I am? What do other breeders want to see done by the KC to keep our pedigree dogs healthy?

It is time for the KC to act, actually that time has passed for some breeds so why are they sitting on their hands instead of implementing a world class programme for the succesful maintenance of pedigree dog breeds in the 21st century.

They want to take "avoiding action" what should that be?

Cathie
 
I think this country seems to enjoy lagging behind the rest of the developed world and appears to resist progress in many areas, why should dog breeding be any different! :wacko: :unsure: :ermm:

And I'm really not being flippant when I say that :(
 
Adding verbiage to their mission statement would be my guess, based on my experience here with our AKC.
 
Has anyone else had such a letter, i havnt, this is so important, what do you think the KC should do?

Cathie has thrown some ideas there do you folk agree or not?

Jan
 
jayp said:
Has anyone else had such a letter, i havnt,  this is so important, what do you think the KC should do?Cathie has thrown some ideas there do you folk agree or not?

Jan

Yes! We have had two letters cos OH and I have separate affixes!! I have to admit to filing mine under 'B'. I am not even going to waste my time wondering what the KC should do cos they will probably do what they always do .......... b*gger all!
 
dessie said:
jayp said:
Has anyone else had such a letter, i havnt,  this is so important, what do you think the KC should do?Cathie has thrown some ideas there do you folk agree or not?

Jan

Yes! We have had two letters cos OH and I have separate affixes!! I have to admit to filing mine under 'B'. I am not even going to waste my time wondering what the KC should do cos they will probably do what they always do .......... b*gger all!

Sorry Caroline but if we all do that then thats exactly what will happen !!!!!!!
 
jayp said:
dessie said:
jayp said:
Has anyone else had such a letter, i havnt,  this is so important, what do you think the KC should do?Cathie has thrown some ideas there do you folk agree or not?

Jan

Yes! We have had two letters cos OH and I have separate affixes!! I have to admit to filing mine under 'B'. I am not even going to waste my time wondering what the KC should do cos they will probably do what they always do .......... b*gger all!

Sorry Caroline but if we all do that then thats exactly what will happen !!!!!!!


The programme 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed' broadcast by the BBC was certainly a wake up call for the K.C. and it should not now be allowed to sink without trace.

Even if they refused to register puppies from 'In breeding' or ' Very close breeding' it would be a start.
 
doris said:
I think this country seems to enjoy lagging behind the rest of the developed world and appears to resist progress in many areas, why should dog breeding be any different! :wacko:   :unsure:   :ermm:
And I'm really not being flippant when I say that :(


I often think the same thing. We are far behind our European counterparts in so many things......the British can be so stubborn and lazy at times :b :oops: !

Good original post...it's encouraging to see breeders tackling this issue head on. I know i don't show or breed dogs, but pet owners care about this issue too. :thumbsup:
 
I can't believe that they are sending out this rubbish about 'inbreeding being uncommon now'- in many breeds with small gene pools it is the NORM, brother to sister, mother to son etc- just look at the pedigrees for most of the top-winning English Toy Terriers, as an example :blink:

I should think the COI for some of these breeds would be totally shocking! :(

I agree, the Kennel Club MUST do something NOW. But there are so many problems that need addressing- where should they start?

I'm sure that like me, most people were totally shocked to see the suffering of those poor Cavaliers- and incensed that the woman with the winning dog had used him at stud 20 + times since he was diagnosed with syringomyelia (sp?)

However, apparently it is perfectly acceptable to the Cavalier club- and the Kennel club- to breed from an affected dog, as long as it is mated to a clear one :eek:

The idea being that you will then get clear and carriers in the litter. What about the carrier which is maybe sold on, which could then be put to another carrier, and so perpetuates the problem in future generations :angry:

I think that, for breeds with devastating health conditions like this, that every single dog and bitch should have to be tested for the condition before being allowed to be bred from. Any affected dog should be excluded from the gene pool.

There was an article in Dog World, about the work the Cavalier club has done over the last 20 years to improve health- well if they have worked so hard, then why are the problems just as bad or worse than 20 years ago?? :- "

NOT GOOD ENOUGH I'm afraid- if they cannot or will not do enough- they should be FORCED into doing it!

I was speaking to one of my customers, who run a boarding kennels, who watched that programme open- mouthed in horror- they have seen many, many Cavaliers in their kennels who constantly scratch at their heads and necks in the way the dogs on the programme did :( So the problem is obviously more widespread than the Cavalier club would have us believe....

Anyway, those are my thoughts for now- wonder if anything will actually come of this or will they try to brush it all under the carpet?

Liz and the Monellis
 
I think every KC around the world should ban parent/offspring and brother/sister mating, with some restrictions on first cousins and grand parents = would not be allowed if the dogs are already inbred.

However, breeders who understand how it works can do plenty themselves. To start with why not do the CoI for your next litter and put it on your website prominently together with a statement that you are trying to maintain good genetic diversity in your breeding?

I am quite surprised how many puppy buyers lately (past couple of years) ask if the litter is linebred, and when I say no, they are obviously pleased.

Public pressure will be very very significant force in getting anything done, so doing our little bit in educating them will help. :)
 
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alfie said:
I agree, the Kennel Club MUST do something NOW. But there are so many problems that need addressing- where should they start?
Liz and the Monellis

This American site explains inheritance of Syringomyelia

syringomayelia

What UK KC should do is to immediately suspend registration of that already terribly overused dog with Syringomyelia. They should also take some action against his owner. Expulsion or at least couple of years suspension may not be totally fair to her (as no doubt there are many other people doing the same), but it would go long way towards getting other breeders to stop and re-think what they are doing.

I wonder if people who mated their bitches to this dog not knowing that he has Syringomyelia could sue the stud dog owner? Or could they sue the KC for not having rules that would prevent such a wide use of a dog without requiring some health checks?

And how about the people who bought puppies from these matings?

Sadly the threat of legal action against breeders and KC will most likely be what will spur on some action.
 
My wish list of regulations;

1- no parent to offspring mating - except with special permission

2- no brother to sister mating- except with special permission

3- no first cousins mating-

unless with a special permission for some extraordinary reason = such as the 2 dogs are the only 2 known to be free of some inherited disease.

4- CoI % limits calculated on at least 5-6 generations on litters

5- in breeds with widespread inherited problem no litter would be registered unless both parents were tested and certified free of that disease.

6- if there was not adequate number of animals free of this problem, and it may be necessary to use carriers, breeders would have to apply for special permission BEFORE the mating took place.

7- dogs diagnosed with serious inherited disease would not be eligible to compete in show

8- all KC registered dogs to be microchipped and their DNA recorded
 
alfie said:
I'm sure that like me, most people were totally shocked to see the suffering of those poor Cavaliers- and incensed that the woman with the winning dog had used him at stud 20 + times since he was diagnosed with syringomyelia (sp?) However, apparently it is perfectly acceptable to the Cavalier club- and the Kennel club- to breed from an affected dog, as long as it is mated to a clear one :eek:

The idea being that you will then get clear and carriers in the litter. What about the carrier which is maybe sold on, which could then be put to another carrier, and so perpetuates the problem in future generations :angry:

Liz and the Monellis

So are they doing regular Check's on all his offspring ?

To see if this is the case or not.
 
AnnSa said:
alfie said:
However, apparently it is perfectly acceptable to the Cavalier club- and the Kennel club- to breed from an affected dog, as long as it is mated to a clear one :eek:

The idea being that you will then get clear and carriers in the litter. What about the carrier which is maybe sold on, which could then be put to another carrier, and so perpetuates the problem in future generations :angry:

Liz and the Monellis

So are they doing regular Check's on all his offspring ?

To see if this is the case or not.

The problem with syringomyelia is that at present it is not possible to diagnose the carriers. The only diagnoses is made by scan and that only shows if the dog has it or not. Breeding affected dog will result in 100% carrier pups. And they cannot be diagnosed until they start showing signs of it, usually between 6 months and 3 years

The link I posted before does not seem to work for me so i have another go

http://www.cavaliersbc.com/syringomyelia.htm
 
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I have just read the article- it is truly a horror story :eek:

Seems to me that the breed is doomed- can you imagine all the breeders (and puppy farmers) being so honest as to exclude all affected and carrier dogs from their breeding programmes? :(

Liz and the Monellis
 
A great thread, and some very interesting posts so far.

It does seem an excellent and forward thinking idea to have all COI's on pedigrees, and this is something that only the Kennel Club can practically do. If this was something that all breeders were looking at when planning their matings, it would be very obvious from the start whether this was a safe mating or not.

And if it were well publicised, and the general public were kept informed on what the COI is (and I think with all the interest in pedigree dog breeding in the press recently, this is an excellent time to start), they will start to ask for this information from breeders, and turn down inbred pups as being potentially unhealthy.

The KC must act, firmly and intelligently, to enable conscientious breeders to safeguard the health and welfare of all our beloved pedigree dogs.
 
It would be great to have some of the newer breeders comments on here too,as they are the future of our breed, go on have your say....... :- "
 
The more information made available to the public the better.

Let's get as much info as possible out in the open.

Don't let the unscrupulous in the dog world have anywhere to hide.
 
What about education for breeders. Many have a very limited understanding of genetics and therefore struggle with concepts such as "genetic diversity", "COI's"and "reducing gene pool".

They therefore find it impossible to look at the breed as a WHOLE and understand the need to breed in a way that is appropriate for the health of the breed into the future.

This is not a criticism, the British education system does not serve all individuals the same, however this lack of knowledge could be redressed by a pro active KC dedicated to educating breeders through seminars, web tutorials and breed specific information.

At the recent international congress, Natalia's genetics lecture was received most enthusiastically by the delegates who really appreciated her clear and farsighted observations. I know that many international whippet clubs want her to speak at their seminars and events.

It is about time the KC stepped up to the plate on this one to help out breeders floundering in a mire of complicated theories that they simply cannot grasp. It is no longer enough to expect people to rely on experience alone. Isn't that what has led to the degeneration of many breeds already!

Cathie
 
I hate that new phrase 'step up to the plate' where did it come from?
 
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