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The French Championship Show

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Cinderella

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This link is certainly worth to see :

http://www.cedia.fr

For those who doen't understand french, go to results and click on Championat de France. This important competion was in Lyon, judge <deleted>. Look to all the winners, and of course the other whippets...

Maybe worth for a discussion !
 
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Cinderella said:
This link is certainly worth to see :http://www.cedia.fr

For those who doen't understand french, go to results and click on Championat de France.  This important competion was in Lyon, judge <deleted>.  Look to all the winners, and of course the other whippets...

Maybe worth for a discussion !

Click to expand...

Looking but no reply ? Look especially for the bitches :

Open : Daydream Dimahana - owner Delabelle (Belgium)

Intermed : Barnesmore Ruby Tuesday - owner Delabelle

Champ : Margarita of Falconcrag - owner Delabelle

BOB : Daydream Dimahana

Sometimes it is really hard to win with 2 dogs maybe it is easier with 3 LOL

What do you think Morgan ?
 
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The dog CAC winner is Canadian born and a Canadian champion, but was bred out of entirely imported American lines from the Saxon Shore kennel in California. A lot of the dogs in Western Canada where this dog originated from especially seem to be bred out of similar American lines.

Lynallan's Rio of Brunshwood means the dog was at some point owned by dentist Dr. Dennis Sumara whose kennel affix in Canada is Brushwood. A year ago at the American Whippet Club national specialty in Greensboro, North Carolina, <deleted> put up Sumara's bitch Brushwood Zoom of Tanglewynde. The sire of this bitch, though bred in Canada by Wenrick kennels, is owned by Sporting Fields kennels and he is again entirely American in his bloodlines. In fact, both sides of the pedigree are again heavily reliant on the Saxon Shore lines from California.

Clearly this is a type <deleted> likes.

Cannot comment on the best of breed winner but those are the basic facts on the dog winner.

Lanny

Avalonia Whippets in Canada
 
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Wasn't the WINNER BITCH under <deleted> at the AWC NATIONAL the bitch Moxi or BRUSHWOOD MOXI OF ENDEAVOR and the male SPORTINGFIELD ROCK ON
 
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The CAC, CACIB winner Lynallan´s Rio of Brushwood is a Canadian, Spanish and Portuguese champion and possibly soon a French champion. He was imported to Spain a couple of years ago. The owners are looking for a bitch of similar breeding. Seems this is not all that easy. If anyone can help, please let me know. Stephen
 
Actually she is out of Zamia Di mahana by XR Chambord Tea Time. On the site of Di mahana your can see her full pedigree under our futur.

But I still don't know what whippets you have as your are looking to help Raul and Ignace ...
 
For Cinderella, All our whippets are getting a bit long in the tooth, except for Isidra who is 13 months. The other 3 bitches and one dog are Silkstone, Nevedith, Dondelayo. Isidra comes from the above lines mixed in with Manoir de la Grenouillère, Normandy Social Standing , Bohem. Her pedigree is similar to that of the Portuguese CH. Superlook du Manoir de la Grenouillère. Isidra`s sire is the kennel mate of Lynallan´s Rio of Brushwood. We did not use Rio as we thought he was too much of an outcross. May be we should have done. Stephen
 
If Isidra has Bohem in her bloodlines, is Molly in her pedigree, if yes, than it is in her mother side. I am curious to know who are the parents A,d also about the bitch your friends are looking for
 
Cinderella, you are absolutely right, it was Brushwood Moxi of Endeavour, not Zoom, who is a male, which won the AWC National specialty, and Debbie Butt's male was BOS (he won the AWC National this year). . However, the rest of my point stands. Moxi is 100% American breeding, again based on Saxon Shore.

The case of the bitches is certainly more interesting so let me play devil's advocate and wade into this fray.

As I am reading it, exception is being taken to an exhibitor showing a lot of bitches in this show in the hopes of winning. However, as we all know, the Championat de France shows are very few and for a whippet to become a French Champion it must win a CAC at one of the Championat shows to finish its French title. If I were a showing fool and a French championship were really important to me, I too would show as many different dogs in as many different classes as I had or could afford to show, and that is what a lot of the competitors seem to have done, including the one who went BOB ultimately. If you look you will see multiple entries from owners of dogs bred by all the top French kennels in search of this elusive CAC. So we cannot fault the winner for wanting to try to increase the odds of winning by putting in as many entries as was possible based on his stable of quality whippets. This happens world wide -- look at the American Whippet Club national specialty and see how many dogs with the affix Sporting Fields, or Chelsea, or Delacreme etc. that you see. Of course they are owned by lots of individuals who purchased the dogs from those kennels, in addition to those shown in numbers by the breeder in question. I see no problem here.

What is more interesting to me from the perspective of a breeder is that in the case of this Championat de France instance, all the bitches cited by Cinderalla that won in those classes were owned by the same individual, who is also a breeder. But only one was bred by that individual and it is an outcrossed breeding of dogs of unrelated lines from mostly UK bloodlines.

My question, or maybe it is my point is this.

Since all of these dogs have heavily English/Irish pedigrees, but the pedigress are so diverse that they do not easily match in a breeding program, what is the primary objective of this kennel -- showing and winning by offering as many different alternatives as may attract a wide range of judges?

Is this a show kennel primarily where winning is topmost in the exhibitor's mind?

Or is it a breeding kennel because here I have some difficulty since we all know that line breeding carefully using closely related dogs will, over time, results in a consistency of type that has the best opportunity to produce a genuine and distinguishable line.

My assumption based on analysis of the pedigrees and their essential non-relationship is that this kennel's primary objective is winning in the ring.

Many people breed type to type -- this pretty bitch to that nice looking dog -- but it is not my personal idea of what a good breeding program requires. That said, many breeders world wide, especially those keen on showing and winning, follow.

My own assumption, assessing the pedigrees of the three winning bitches is that absent a strong prepotent, very linebred male that is bred to all these diverse pedigrees over the next five years, I don't see a clear type emerging that that will be distinguishable in 20 years from now. Type comes from linebreeding, not outcrossing and breeding one generation back in then outcrossing again and again.

Please hear me, I am not being critical. There is nothing wrong with that approach, but it is not one I personally believe in or would take. My personal approach is to breed tightly linebred dogs of high quality and consistent type and assume that this combination will give me the wins I want in the show ring. If not immediately, certainly in very short order. But what makes dog breeding and showing so interesting is the diversity of approaches that different folks in different places take to arrive at -- hopefully -- the same objective. A sound, typical whippet that manifests the qualities for which the breed was developed in the first place.

Lanny
 
Hello,

We are mostly lurkers on this board, BUT we do read it on a regular basis and seeing as how we are the co-breeders of "Rio" (the winner of the dog CAC at this French show), we figured we had to jump in here.

Lanny is right when she says that although Rio was born and raised in Canada his lines are entirely American. He was co-bred by ourselves & Dennis Sumara (Brushwood) & Daniel Lockhart (Saxon Shore). Also Dennis Sumara is not a dentist, lol, he's actually a professor at the University of Alberta. ;) Moxi (the winner of the 2004 American National under <deleted>...) and Rio have very similar pedigrees. Many of the dogs in the pedigrees are the same, but in slightly different locations. And Zoom (Brushwood Zoom of Tanglewynd) is actually a female too, and she won an Award of Merit under <deleted> at the 2004 National.

When Rio was a young puppy we had every intention of keeping him, but he ended up being a little smaller than the majority of Whippets shown here. I'm not exactly sure what he measures but it's under 20". And it also ended up that his brother, "Shae" (Am. Can. Ch. Lynallans Brushwood Shaker) was a little closer to what we had in mind when we did the breeding. Rio finished his Canadian Championship easily and when the opportunity came along to send him to Ignacio & Raul we decided that with Rio's small size he would be a good one for them to import. We have NEVER regretted our decision to send him. And we are VERY proud and honored to have co-bred him. And he's exceeded all our expectations. As Stephen mentioned he's a Canadian, Spanish & Portugese Champion and from what I heard from Ignacio this win in France also gave him his International Championship. We are definitely hoping that they will also try and put a French Championship on him. We'd also like to thank Ignacio & Raul for taking such good care of 'our' little Rio and congratulate them for all the success they've had with him.

If anyone would like to see pictures of Rio (as well as his sire, dam and littermates) you are more than welcome to visit our site - www.lynallanwhippets.com. Rio can be found on the Bred By page and pics of the sire/dam and the rest of the litter can be found by going to the Litters Page and then going to Litter 4.

Regards,

Sue & Alyssa

Lynallan Whippets
 
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I mostly lurk too but sensed there was some concern about the show so I thought it useful to background the bloodlines I was familiar with. Wish I was as familiar with all the names as the lines! I knew I had seen Zoom at the AWC National and I was certain it was a female, and then I checked my pedigree program and saw I had Zoom listed as a male an error that is now corrected! My experience has been that the Brushwood dogs/dogs bred to or out of them are very moderate sized dogs -- a legacy of their Saxon Shore heritage -- so I am not surprised that Rio made it to Europe and has done so well. If Rio is now a champion in all those countries and won the CAC in France then yes, he would be an International Champion. We have our own Int.Ch. back home in Canada now - Int.Belg.Cdn.Ch. Avalonia Macallan -- after a couple of years in Europe where she was shown by Bart Scheerens of Belgium to her titles. Tess also won at least one of her CACs in France. The Int. Ch. title is a wonderful title too few North American dogs ever have a chance to earn so it is delightful when it comes. And the Int.Ch. certificate is the nicest championship certificate I have ever seen. Ours is framed and hanging on the wall in the front hall of our house.

Lanny
 
Just to comment that <deleted> wrote the chapter on whippets in Norway in PJ Moran- Healy´s now well known " The Whippet". I remember seeing him judging at the South Yorkshire Whippet Club Show near Sheffield a few years ago. , Stephen
 
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Cinderella said:
Sometimes it is really hard to win with 2 dogs  maybe it is easier with 3 LOLWhat do you think Morgan ?

Click to expand...
Cinderella,

Scandinavian judges are used to that kind of things.

I still remember a few years ago I showed two dogs to <deleted> somewhere in Germany and won with both, namely UK Ch. Fawnbree Harvey Wallbanger (CAC open dog) and SBIS Multi Ch. Taraly Malcolm X, 1st Champion dog. With a very good entry and high quality competition!!! I respect much more a judge for awarding dogs from the same exhibitor IF HE REALLY THINKS THEY ARE THE BEST from the entry. Cinderella: do you preffer a judge who will think "OK I gave it to this one, next one is for that one" :blink: , everybody knows this happens unfortunatly :rant: !!!

Considering the French Championship Show it was a very interesting entry in my point of view with some top quality dogs, really interesting.

The overall impression left to exhibitors however was that <deleted> was in a hurry and wanted to finish his judging very quick :( ... a bit disappointing for such an "important" show. Normally he was supposed the judge the group but didn't... It was officially announced he had to catch his plane. I received several phone calls from a bit "frustrated" exhibitors but this was it....

Considering this judging you have the right to agree or not but this is a judge's decision and opinion, it doesn't mean it is the absolute "TRUTH" ;) o:) :p ....
 
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For Sue,... and many others

His choise for Rio was certainly a good one, that was not the beginning of the topic. Maybe it is time to have a general look on the european showscene ! This was one of the many examples of judging I can give. I don't doubt that <deleted> isn't a good judge or breeder. The main question I am posing is : in the ring you have fellow competitors no judges against fellow competitors judges. Follow up the last several competition on the continent of UK and see where you get. Or we doing it for the breed or for our own honour. And yes arrangements are so easy, just have he closer look as I told you and you can see a spider web.
 
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There are times when we are not happy with the judging. And there is a time and a place to air your grievances - in your car on the way home, in your campsite or motel room after the show, in your own home - verbally and quietly - amongst others who probably feel the same way. You have your grumble and then get on with life.

It's the same in showing the world over. There are times when ones suspects there is something not quite right going on. But you can never know for sure if something untoward has happened and if you do know for absolute certain then you should report it to the respective authority.

I do not think K9 is the place to air disgruntlement with judging or to allude to impropriety in judging especially when you are naming people. I don't know what you can possibly hope to achieve by doing this.

I urge you (as I have urged others before) for your own safety to be very careful about what you put in writing in a world wide public forum.

My belief is if you have doubts you should take up the issue with the person in question, take it the step further and report it or ... let it slide.
 
Hello Cinderella, Sorry, but cannot understand your last message especially " In the ring etc." Could you tell us the whippet bloodlines you are interested in and the country you reside in. Stephen
 
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