Recall training?

[Tova]

Recall?

How can I stop my dog from running over to every dog she sees? She’s great off when we’re alone or there’s only a few dogs around at a distance or one’s she knows but if there’s lots around I can’t leave her off because she will run up to every single one and won’t back off when they start to growl or even snap/bite at her! I wouldn’t mind so much if she ‘got the hint’ but she doesn’t and she can get overexcited which leads to her running around like crazy ignoring me and she’s really fast! (This usually only happens when she hasn’t got to get a good run in for a while).


It’s really driving me nuts now as it never did before because she wasn’t so bad as a pup but normal hour walks don’t tire her like a good run does. I’ve tried taking balls to the park and her favourite rope toy but she’s just not interested she prefers to chase the birds. (No birds are harmed).


It’s probably my anxiety that makes her worse for it tbh but when she’s running out of sight after a dog I can’t help but worry! She knows the heel command but even that doesn’t work once she sees a dog she wants to get at. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[merlina]

It's sort of natural for a dog to meet other dogs- they are social animals and meeting other canines is part of the joy of a walk for them. If you really get anxious try distraction- a squeaky toy say that you use as soon as you see the distant dog. It's all about getting the concentration on you rather than the horizon! But to be honest my two are still really keen to socialise so I don't think it's a problem with a complete solution.

 

[Michele83]

If you live in the UK, there was an episode of 'Embarrassing Dogs' recently which showed how to tackle this with a squeaky toy and treats. Based on that programme, I think that you might have to (temporarily at least!) accept that you need to keep her on a lead just for the time it takes to train her, and then hopefully when they get through it you can start letting her off again. How old is she? If she's going through adolescence then I don't think it's unusual for her to be worse than she was when she was a pup, but I don't think that means that she won't get better as she gets older. Others who have have more dogs can advise!

I really sympathise as mine is 7 months and is also going through the same thing. She completely ignores me if she sees another dog and will cross an entire field to get to them sometimes. It makes it difficult to know when you can let her off and when you can't, as many people don't like their dogs to be bothered (but others love the chance to let their dogs play with yours....!) Mine also doesn't really get the hint from stroppy dogs either. At the moment, I'm simply making it impossible for her to bother other dogs by putting her on the lead if I see one, and holding her still. I also distract her with a stick when we pass one which works a lot of the time.

 

[Caro Perry]

We've been working on this with Harri for months. If he sees another dog he's off and completely deaf to any recall. No treat or toy is high value enough to distract him. As it's only a matter of time before he gets badly bitten he spends a lot of time on a long lead.

The behaviourist we are working with has us controlling his social interactions by only allowing him to greet another dog ( the only reward he values in this situation) by asking permission first with a glance at me. If he looks he can go say hello and if appropriate I'll let him off or a play. If he's fixated and ignoring me he doesn't get to interact at all.

it's been a long slow slog but we are finally seeing some improvements.

 

[Tova]

She’s 1yo, I’ve been using a retractable so she still gets that freedom when I can’t let her off. But this lady gave me some advice the other day and basically told me that she won’t learn if I don’t give her the chance to.

I’ve been taking her earlier when there’s hardly anyone around and letting her off. I put her back on if there’s a dog on lead or little dogs around because she jumps all over them but I’ve been leaving her otherwise and even though she does run up to say hello/play and has often been getting ‘told off’ for her craziness I think she’s getting the hint and has been coming back to me when I call and offer a treat.

Sometimes I’ve had to make a trail away from the dog with treats but whatever works. She’s submissive to and does lie down before going over/roll over onto her back when things get heated. I live around the corner from two big parks and I go there most days so I sort of know which dogs are fine with her and which aren’t.

I’ve also ordered her a frisbee to try in the park since she won’t play with anything else outside and I’ll definitely have a look at embarrassing dogs. Thanks everyone.

 

[leashedForLife]

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Personally, as a trainer, i wouldn’t suggest nor would I use a retractable/ extendable leash -

they are spring-loaded, & the dog learns to pull against tension. They MUST pull in order to get any leash out, & the more length is out / in use, the harder the dog must pull, even merely to “keep” the length they’ve already got off the reel... if the dog gives to the tension, the leash is shortened by the spring & goes back onto the reel.

I prefer my own dogs to learn to give to pressure, & move with the leash, not in opposition to it.
I also teach “give to pressure” to my clients’ dogs, so that outside of extremely unusual circs, they can be safely controlled with one hand - the clients’ children can walk their dogs (supervised, not solo) without worrying they’ll be pulled off their feet, or that a dog will take advantage, yank the leash from their small hands, & take off.

I would instead suggest use any snug-fitting Y-harness, with a long line clipped to the dog’s chest, not to the usual attachment points, above the shoulders or spine, which only make pulling easier & more effective for the dog.

Dogs already enjoy many physical advantages over bipedal humans -
4 on the floor stability, cleats on their feet, greater speed & endurance, faster reaction time, built-in weapons, better balance, better leverage, a higher strength-to-muscle ratio. Most 10 to 12-WO pups can already outrun an adult human; what keeps them close is only their immaturity & emotional dependency, but when they hit 14 to 16-WO, that’s changed!

A Y-harness with the lead clipped to the chest helps level the playing field -
It improves the handler’s body mechanics, reduces the dog’s leverage, & takes the major muscles of the dog out of the game; they are limited to the power of their neck & a little help from mass / momentum, but the front-clipped harness redirects the forward force from their rear legs, & converts it to an arc —- so long as the handler keeps their hands LOW and their arms / wrists relatively straight, if the dog lunges or tries to run forward or pull, s/he will instead travel on a diagonal that will intersect with Ur own line of travel.
If U go chicken-winged & bend both Ur wrists and Ur elbows, Ur body mechanics are instantly terrible, & even a small dog can overpower U. :shrug:

I have had many disabled & elderly clients, over the years, & a front-clip harness makes controlling even large dogs possible for most ppl, even for those with significant physical limitations; the exception is those folks who have a weak grasp - they will need a head collar to control a dog larger than toy size (any dog over 20 to 30# weight).
A front-clipped harness cannot compensate for a weak grip, but a head collar can.

The average dog, pound for pound, has 3X the strength of an average adult human.
Add the fact that most dogs easily jog along at 15 to 20-mph, & many can hit 30-mph in spurts, & it’s easy to see we humans are hopelessly outclassed.
I will take any force-free & pain-free advantage I can get, LOL.
Muscle breeds (Rott, AmStaff / APBT / pitbull type, most bully breeds other than the Brit Bulldog whose modern incarnation is a misshapen dwarf of their long-past athletic glory) have FOUR TIMES the strength of an average adult human.
We can struggle, or we can use tools that compensate for our relative weakness.

I don’t like to fight with dogs (or horses, cattle, in fact, I dislike fighting with any animal) so I use guile & handy tools to avoid physical arguments, plus I cheat... I set the animal up so that WHAT I WANT is easy or almost inevitable, while what I DON’T WANT is very difficult, preferably impossible.
Then they do what I want —- & I praise them warmly, & reward them for their co-operation. And of course, they are now very very likely to do it again, for that nice payoff.

Training & management becomes much easier when we use our brains, not brawn, & definitely not punishment, aversives, or confrontation. I front-clip Y-harnesses.

- terry

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[Shalista]

Bax uses a front clip Y shaped harness and when he's so inclined he pulls like a horse.

He also gets the zoomies from it.

if he pulls suddenly forward it spins him to the side, which kicks off a glorious spat of zoomies as he runs from left to right using his momentum and the front clip to fling himself around. its fabulous fun. for him.

front clips are great and i swear by using them but they are not fool proof and not for everyone least of all a high energy youngster/terrier.

EDIT: bax and i no longer use front clips because the zoomies were just unmanageable. he walks great with a back clip now.

 

[leashedForLife]

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As an aside:
when using a front-clipped harness, any hands on the leash should be below yer waist.

Bending one’s elbow, & especially bending both wrist & elbow, dramatically weaken yer strength & also wreck yer body mechanics, forcing U to use scrawny ineffective individual muscles, rather than big hunks of body regions.

For instance, U are walking with a reactive dog when U see a dog approaching in the distance, & U have a front-clip harness on the dog U are handling.
U halt with feet slightly apart, then step BACK with the off foot - that’s the foot on the side away from the dog - and bring both hands on the leash toward the side seam of yer pants on that same side, past yer hip, with wrists and elbows straight.
The dog will pivot around their forefoot on the side toward U, & end up facing U, wondering how that happened... with no jerks, no brute force, no grunts of effort, no pain for dog or owner. Easy-peasy. A little steady traction, et voila! - a quick U-turn.

Practicing this U-turn with a reactive, fearful, or anxious dog, away from their triggers, making it happy & fluent, means U have a quick, effective cue to get U and the dog outta Dodge when things go pear-shaped.

- terry

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[Tova]

Thanks for the advice but walking her isn’t the problem i was having. She’s not fearful, aggressive or reactive and doesn’t pull with the harness I have. She’s just a hyper pup that thinks everyone is her bestie

 

[Shalista]

.

As an aside:
when using a front-clipped harness, any hands on the leash should be below yer waist.

Bending one’s elbow, & especially bending both wrist & elbow, dramatically weaken yer strength & also wreck yer body mechanics, forcing U to use scrawny ineffective individual muscles, rather than big hunks of body regions.

For instance, U are walking with a reactive dog when U see a dog approaching in the distance, & U have a front-clip harness on the dog U are handling.
U halt with feet slightly apart, then step BACK with the off foot - that’s the foot on the side away from the dog - and bring both hands on the leash toward the side seam of yer pants on that same side, past yer hip, with wrists and elbows straight.
The dog will pivot around their forefoot on the side toward U, & end up facing U, wondering how that happened... with no jerks, no brute force, no grunts of effort, no pain for dog or owner. Easy-peasy. A little steady traction, et voila! - a quick U-turn.

Practicing this U-turn with a reactive, fearful, or anxious dog, away from their triggers, making it happy & fluent, means U have a quick, effective cue to get U and the dog outta Dodge when things go pear-shaped.

- terry

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thats wonderful, im sure in a perfect world that works... perfectly. unfortunately bax is far from perfect and that worked like rubbish for him.

 

[leashedForLife]

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@Shalista ,
I don’t understand - U seem to think my last comment above was directed at U personally, but it’s just a general tip, for anyone using a front-clip harness. . It’s not “to” U, nor is it any form of criticism, it’s a tip - for anyone who wants to try it, or finds they are struggling with a front-clip harness.
Everyone else can ignore it, as irrelevant.

Also, @Shalista , none of us live “in a perfect world”; we don’t have perfect dogs, perfect spouses, children, partners, bosses, or jobs, either, which gives us something to do, & lots of conversational topics, LOL.

I began training other folks’ dogs when I was 18-YO & decided to specialize in b-mod 13 years later, so the dogs i’ve worked with have largely been very imperfect, indeed.
I’ve done b-mod only for 30 years, now - that’s a lot of fixing, & a lot of owners with varying levels of experience, skill, & aptitude, with a big pile of “dogs with issues”.

I posted the tip above, re straight arms & using one’s torso to turn, only b/c most owners don’t realize that how U handle a leash is a big part of how effective Ur control or management of any dog is.
If the dog U are trying to control is reactive & the situation just got tense, that tip can make the difference between getting U & the dog safely away while the dog is still relatively calm, & having that dog blow up, setting their b-mod back by weeks, & possibly someone being hurt - even if it’s only a sprained ankle, when the owner trips while trying to both control the dog and leave the area quickly.

Stuff happens. I offer tips b/c I want to minimize the chance that ppl or dogs will be hurt, physically or emotionally, & b/c I want every dog to have the best possible chance to live happily with their humans, both species enjoying one another & enriching each others’ lives.

I don’t want ppl to “put up with” their dogs or be miserable, living with problem behaviors for a decade or more - that’s no fun for anyone. Even more, I don’t want owners to think there’s nothing to be done, they must either give up & live with the hassles, or give up their dog to have a less stressful life.
There are very few problem behaviors that can’t be changed for the better; dogs are incredibly plastic & very forgiving creatures.

- terry

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[Shalista]

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@Shalista ,
I don’t understand - U seem to think my last comment above was directed at U personally, but it’s just a general tip, for anyone using a front-clip harness. . It’s not “to” U, nor is it any form of criticism, it’s a tip - for anyone who wants to try it, or finds they are struggling with a front-clip harness.
Everyone else can ignore it, as irrelevant.

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Sorry @leashedForLife i didn't mean to spawn another wall of text post. Lord knows those must take forever for you to write . i know you weren't writing @me before but i wanted to post all the same to counter balance your glowing review of front clips. They didn't work for my dog. I did everything right and they didn't work. That's all my message is saying. It has nothing to do with you. I just wanted to temper the advice with at least one dog who they didn't work for.