Ragging

[Mark Roberts]

Ok things are a bit quiet at the moment on K9 so I thought i'd open up a question that is often talked about at track side but is a bit of a grey area when it comes to rules. RAGGING!

under the rules Ragging is not allowed but when does shouting encouragement become ragging?.

I personaly don't see anything wronge with owners shouting their dogs from any part of the track (even from behind the traps) the only area I would consider it to be ragging is if an owner was stood directly behind the end roller in direct line of the approching dogs, but then the question is will it realy make much differance anyway and in an amature sport thats done for fun who realy cares anyway.!

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN

To me shouting from any other area would just be part & parcel of a good days racing watching your whippet race it's heart out for you.

What a sad day it would be if all owners stood there silent in case they were to have their dog diqualified accused of ragging?.

Has anyone ever been to a greyhound track to find everyone stood silent during a race so as not to be accused of ragging the dogs? I DONT THINK SO.

So come on should racers shout their dogs home and when does shouting encouragment become ragging?.

 

[Judy]

Couldn't agree more Mark. I can't see that it really makes any difference if someone shouts their dog on or not. I guess maybe a dog that wasn't wholeheartedly chasing the lure might run faster but would that really matter? Can they even hear you?

I suppose it would depend on what you think the purpose of racing is. Is it to help breeders breed for speed or prey drive in order to produce the best racing dogs ? Is it a testing ground to keep the breed fit for it's purpose? - in which case you would want to be sure the dog wasn't just running to its owner. Or is it just for fun?

Personally, I think that pedigree racing started with some of these more serious intentions in mind but that just like showing, it has become more of a hobby/sport these days.

I guess ragging was banned in the first place when racing changed from rag racing to lure chasing maybe ?

Maybe you could get a rival dog disqualified by ragging it :blink: Imagine the fights that would cause

 

[ChrisBishop]

Good topic Mark ... :thumbsup: ..I also do not see anything wrong with shouting encouragement for your dog . As you probably know , from your own racing experiences , that certain people at both open and champ races have always shouted encouragement for their dogs ( and probably put the other dogs in the race off ) .

Not only that but if shouting encouragement were allowed ( ragging ) we would have no problem in getting our Inca to race ... 8) . Also as you said whippet racing is supposed to be a fun sport and it should be !!!

If your son / daughter were taking part in a sporting event wouldn't you shout encouragement to him / her to give them a bit of a lift or would you stay quiet whilst all other parents shouted and gave their kids the edge ?? This also makes the event fun and creates a good atmosphere when everyone joins in .

I personally would always shout encouragement to my son so i see no reason why we shouldn't do the same for our dogs !!!!! :cheers:

 

[June Jonigk]

I see no problem with shouting for your dog either, from the side of the track - BUT there was someone warned for ragging at Andover last week. The person in question was standing in the line of the dogs (by the far roller), and so shouting the dog to come to him. I think that is cheating, and I'm glad he was warned. He isn't the only one though, and there is another very well known racer who stands at the end, and again the dog runs to her, and not the lure. In my opinion, owners should not be allowed on the track - apart from cheating, it is dangerous for the dogs. At Andover last week, a dog almost ran into the man standing at the end. These incidents are not in my weight group, but if they were I would complain.

Of course we should have fun though, and lots of people have shouted their dogs from the side of the track, and even at the end, but if you're behind the perimeter fencing, I see no problem - sometimes you just can't help yourself. :thumbsup:

 

[Judy]

Hi June. See your point but as a matter of interest - apart from being against the rules, why do you think it is cheating?

 

[June Jonigk]

Hi Judy

Are you having a blonde moment? - Anything that's against the rules is cheating!!

I think I know what you mean though. I think dogs that need to be ragged to run, are not properly trained, and should go back to club level to train properly. Dogs should always be trained to run away from their owners, and it's sad when people are not given the right information when coming into the sport. As you know Judy, Doug Smith at the Northern could only get his dogs to run to him, and many a time I've seen his dog run the track, and then veer off to him at the side, right in front of the others, causing a collision. It's very unsafe for the dogs. He was always telling new people to go up and shout their dogs to get them running. :wacko:

Luckily people gave us better advice when we started. :thumbsup:

I don't really think a dog hears you when you shout it when it's racing, but a dog that isn't intent on catching the lure probably does hear you shouting it. My real gripe is standing at the end of the track - that is blatantly cheating in my opinion, and should be stopped. :angry:

 

[John E Greenwood]

I can't see anything wrong in shouting encouragement to your dog.....adds to the excitement and atmosphere.

Dogs not chasing the lure is another issue, isn't it?

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi June, I agree with you that non chasers should not be got racing by the method of shouting them down the track as you say that is dangerous to other racers.

 

[Strike Whippets]

I must admit after years of working with racing Greyhounds that i do find Whippet racing very quiet and slightly less fun (apart from the fact that it's your beautiful pet dogs racing up that track ).........and when some new comers arrived on the scene a few years ago with 2 great dogs, i remember that they were warned about so said ragging and shouting for their dogs (who are both as straight and honest as the day is long) and even the children had to be quiet aswell .......when there are some people who are allowed to call and shout for their dogs race after race :wacko: (fair isn't it :unsure: )........I must also admit that i don't enjoy the open scene as much as i enjoy club racing as the competitiveness, nit picking and bitching is letting our hobby down. ......So i say back to club racing where we can rag and have as much fun as we like

 

[Vicky]

So how exactly do you lot train pups if you can't walk the track / rag etc?

Btw. My idea of ragging is ragging a dog, either walking the track with some sort of 'rag' or ragging it at the end, i wouldn't call shouting them ragging.

The first thing we did when we had a non chaser (she used to come out the traps & straight round the back to me) was me walking round a greyhound track away from her shouting so that she could see me walking away - hey presto first time straight round & never looked back after that.

What would you guys do with a non chaser then? Throw the cap in?

Who teases & gets pups keen at the end if your not allowed to walk the track?

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Vicky, they are trained from the start to chase the lure not run to their owners voice ect.

Recently there seems to be a trend to stop owners from even shouting encouragement to their dogs during the race from any part of the track, which to me is all part of the enjoyment of racing? (might have to join your lot for a good shout! :- " )

at the Open June mentions it took us 3 1/2 hours to drive down having left home at 5.30am it took us 8 to get back due to traffic and when Paula put 1 of ours in and shouted her on once the boxes had opened was told if she did it again the dog would be disqaulified? so I won't be making that jurney again in a hurry.

 

[fallenangel]

Iv got a big gob so i had better stick with the none peds :lol:

wendy

 

[Mark Roberts]

I don't think anyone would notice you Wendy?.

 

[Judy]

Hi JudyAre you having a blonde moment? - Anything that's against the rules is cheating!!

Oy! who are you calling blonde? I did say apart from being against the rules. We'll compare hair colour next week

I agree that it can be unsafe if a dog runs out to an owner at the end but some dogs do that even when they aren't being called by the owners. I do take your point that it is more likely to happen if a dog only runs up the track because it is being called on by their owner. I guess there is ragging and then there is ragging

Vicky - we do get pups that don't run obviously, and sometimes their owners have to do the same as you, running up the track first, but they have to do it all in trials before they are cleared to race. Its just occured to me to ask - do you (in non-peds) have such a thing as clearing trials for puppies before they are allowed to race? I just always assumed you did.

 

[Vicky]

Vicky - we do get pups that don't run obviously, and sometimes their owners have to do the same as you, running up the track first, but they have to do it all in trials before they are cleared to race. Its just occured to me to ask - do you (in non-peds) have such a thing as clearing trials for puppies before they are allowed to race? I just always assumed you did.

As a rule No, As far as i know it's all done at the clubs/owners discretion and we don't seem to have that many tacklers, you'd think we're leaving ourselves wide open for abuse but i can't remember the last pup i saw tackle at an open. I've heard of quite a few tacklers / non chasers from the ped world, it seems to happen much more than it does in the non peds, maybe something to do with the age you are allowed to start trialling (if i have my facts right).

 

[John E Greenwood]

It's cos they fanny about too much, Vicky

 

[Vicky]

Another point, i don't know of any non peds, no i'm lying i know of 1 non ped that doesn't go in at the end (he goes straight to owner - who incidentally doesn't shout) but all the way up the track he's chasing the lure. Other than that they all seem to go in for the lure at the end & are obviously not bothered by the shouting etc Maybe it's because they're used to it though?

So how do you train your pups?

Does anyone shout & rag (tease) them at the end to get them keen? That to me is the biggest part of their training.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Define FANNY about Greeny then we know were we are all going wronge?.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Hi Vicky, we start training from as soon as the pups can stand (the ones we breed) we have onion sacks hung up (it's ok they are already dead) the kids pull bits of fur round ect.

 

[John E Greenwood]

The main difference between Gin Pits and the Northern is that at GP the dogs and people all stand at the end of the race, so pups have to run towards the noise and other dogs/people from the begining of their training, and at the Northern there are very few people, and usually no dogs at the finishing line.

It's NOT rocket science, Mark.........I've given up trying to analyse why some dogs won't chase etc.....because I have NO IDEA what the owners are doing with them between race days......one suspects not much.....In my limited experience (3dogs) I don't know how you would stop them chasing.

I think some people forget that they are DOGS and that you CAN speak to them and tell them right from wrong...whippets aren't a separate species of racing robot.....they will enjoy the game, if you give them chance and enjoy it with them.....Whilst we're on the subject, they are capable of learning several different games as well....showing, racing, coursing, rabbiting....they all just enrich the dogs' life, and given the opportunity, they will enjoy them all.

One thing worth consideration, is that IMO the dog will catch things for YOU the owner....so try to look pleased and show some gratitude when you take the lure from him....I can tell Barney to put the lure down. When I wasn't there, on Sunday, they couldn't get it off him, and resorted, under instruction from experienced racers, to "nipping" him. (w00t) ...Demonstrating, I think, that he catches the lure, to give it to me.