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Puppy freaked out by other dogs then 'attacks' me!

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bombolone

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I wonder if people had any thoughts on a new and rather stressful behaviour developing in my puppy (4 months). He is getting quite scared in the park when bouncy dogs come up to him. I know he is scared because he hides behind my legs (for a bit) then as the other dog runs to him he will react by running, growling and barking. He is clearly scared but not sure what to do. A couple of times the other dog has then 'gone' for him and he freaks out - squeals and runs all over the shop and lies down and goes 'crazy'! - he is unstoppable and i try to get away from the scene but he is usually being pursued by the other dog (often that dog is just playing, it would seem? wanting to play chase... my puppy sees this as a threat) and is too involved/scared.

So that's one thing.

Then when I do manage to get him out of there, he goes mad at ME. Starts jumping up, barking, and inevitably grabs a piece of my clothing and, growling, tugs and tugs and tugs and won't let go (until another dog or something eventually distracts him). This is alarming for me (dog who will not hear anything and is growling and jumping and tugging for dear life at my clothes) and I cannot find a technique to get him to calm down and stop.

When he does eventually calm, I will stroke him and try to soothe him to get him to chill out a bit before we move on. He is fine and then will jump and growl and clothes-tug all over again several times until I get home. It's like he goes crazy from all the stress and adrenaline triggered by the 'scary other dog' incident and can't stop 'attacking' - but me! The other dogs do not seem to be being particularly aggressive - they are at most playful and wanting a chase....

This seems like a really negative cycle that I need to get out of asap. I make a point of only stopping to meet old 'slow' moving dogs to set him a good example. But he likes to bark and jump around them trying to get a reaction out of them. So he is as bad as the dogs that scare him....

Any advice much appreciated. Especially on how to get a growling/tugging puppy off me and save my clothes (which get shredded) and my sanity (such a stressful walk...). And how to make my dog calmer about meeting other dogs....

Thank you!
 
I'm also having difficulty with a scared puppy that I sit for several times a week. I am trying to introduce her to dogs slowly. Have started taking him to the beach and going up to dogs slowly. If she gets scared, stroking her and talk to her calmly. I then pick her up if she's in a state. But I don't walk away from them. I pick her up and go towards theem again to show that they are ok. Only friendly and calm dogs I will do this with. I want to associate a good experience with seeing other dogs. She's fab with people, including little children. It's just the dogs that scare her because she hasn't socialised much yet. It takes a bit of adjustment. But I'm going to keep taking her out and down the beach to get her used to outside.

She also does bite my clothes occasionally. I have used the 'ouch' technique with this and she has calmed down a lot. She licks a lot more now. If she's biting put him down and ignore him for a few minutes. Then distract him with a toy and show him how to behave. Give him treats and smooth him when he's doing good etc.

It is a difficult process. Though I am finding it easier.
 
Your puppy is about to enter the development stage when he goes through his second fear stage so you need to be careful. The biting your clothes etc is redirection - he is not able to act out his behaviour on the other dog so it's a sort of release to do it to you.

Your dog has a sort of invisible radius of space around him where ha feels secure. Inside that ring he feels vulnerable and afraid. Work out what that is and keep him far enough away from other dogs that he is relaxed. Gradually reduce - over weeks, months, and a metre at a time - while rewarding his bravery with treats. But - the distance can vary, if he is stressed it will be greater - dogs he might not react to normally might be too close for comfort on another day.
 
It sounds as if it is all a bit overwhelming for your puppy. Can you find a quieter place to walk for a while? He needs his confidence building.

Best of all is to find a Puppy Socialisation Class run by a member of the APDT. They will give you lots of advice and support and your puppy can learn doggy body language each week.

If you do go to the park and he gets fearful try to get the other owner to pop their dog on lead while the dogs walk along together.

Whenever you can use the distance as explained by JoanneF. Sit on a bench and let him watch other dogs from his "safe" distance. Feed him treats for being brave.

Wear tough clothing and practice the ouch technique, as above, for the times when he boils over. Reward any calm behaviour.
 
Thank you both so much for your help. It is helpful to understand the space concept and I think you are both right - I need to find a way to minimise his "overwhelm". Also good to know that there is a fear phase on the horizon - I need to get him through that smoothly.

Tough clothes are definitely in order!

One question, do you think it's wrong/counter productive to calm him by picking him up?? I haven't done this because I worry that it sends signal that there IS something to fear, but I know it would soothe him.... for now in end down and stroke him, which helps a bit but obviously not enough!
 
Personally I wouldn't. I think it might slow him getting over his fear by avoiding it rather than dealing with it? In a real emergency like an actual attack I would but not for day to day meetings. I should have said I also train an 'eyes on me' cue so if a dog gets closer than my dog is happy with, I can focus him on me and not the other dog. I sometimes go through some training - sit, paw, high fives etc to keep his attention.
 
Thank you again JoanneF. We are in early stages of training and the commands are not hugely 'robust' at the moment. Either I am doing something wrong or that is just part of the process. I am trying to keep it simple so he gets good at the ones we are doing rather than training loads things. Do you think that is right or is it good to introduce everything and therefore practice everything all the time? I have been focusing on sit, down, stay (and 'ok' as release), leave it (ha! not going well!), and recall in the park. My instinct was to consolidate those first before doing new things. Should I add 'eyes on me' to that list? How does that differ from calling his name? I do click and treat intermittently when I say his name and he looks up at me....

And I have started to work on 'near me' as a kind of heel - trying to get him not to charge ahead. That is proving quite tough (only seems to work with very high value treat and backbreaking luring - i have to bend low so he doesn't jump up for the treat).

What do you think?
 
They are not robots :) It is all so difficult for them. Our job is to make it easy by giving them space and not too many distractions.

It sounds as if you are doing all the right things. It may be a timing issue? You could book a session with a trainer to come out with you to see if they can pick up on anything that might be slowing the learning process.

Whenever we are first teaching something it is always best to do it completely clear of all distractions and then, once established, move to a slightly more distracting environment to "proof" the behaviour before moving on to the next level etc. In the case of behaviour around other dogs this would mean teaching, for instance, a "watch me" command around the house first, then in the garden, then in a quiet street, followed by a busier street until you make it to the park or other open space. Be prepared to go back a stage if things do not go to plan.

If you are clicker training have you seen the you tube videos by Kikopup?
 
I think personally a few solid training cues at a time is the right way to go. Recall, sit, stay, etc according to what's important for you. It does take a while. My last dog was intelligent and eager to please. My current one - well, I just thought he was much less intelligent. Then one day he clearly remembered seeing a cat in a garden in a village we had visited once, many months before. I realised then that he was pretty smart, but just more stubborn than my last one. Then one day something just clicked. I don't even remember it happening. I just realised he was doing what I asked, when I asked it. He is now a super little guy and I cant imagine life without him.
 
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I, too, had what I thought was a slow learner once. A rescue GSD. It turned out he was super intelligent and had learned to "act the fool" in order to avoid doing as he was told :)
 
Thank you so much for all your thoughts. Things are getting better. Maybe it's an age/exposure thing as well... We booked some walks with a dog walker for more socialisation with loads of dogs and he seems much calmer with other dogs now - happier to see them and want to play rather than freaked out. Just thought I'd post this to add, in case people read the thread in future...

The 'proofing' thing with training is hard. I get as far as house and garden then street becomes very very tricky!! Still persisting though...

I thought our puppy was not learning very fast but I noticed something the other day. When going over 'down', which I thought he had easily mastered long ago as he had been doing it well, it seemed that he was totally confused and had forgotten it all... I tried several times through the day and he didn't really get it or do it until I actually bent down and pointed to the floor. Then I got out some really extra high value treats, simply said "down" without pointing, and guess what? "down" worked first time and in a shot! So he knows what he is doing!

But what do I do to phase out the treats/value of the treats and ensure he still does as asked???? Will I have crumbled bits of kibble and fishy treats lining my pockets for ever more??
 
Yes, you probably will! But the good news is that you can start to phase out treats. When you have a solid response to a cue like recall for example, don't always give the high value fishy treat. Give a piece of kibble, or a rub of the ears, or a 'good dog' verbal reward. Keep him guessing as to what he will get. I carry a hierarchy of treats - liver cake or dried sausage for a 'difficult' recall (away from something that is more fun than I am) and an ear rub/verbal praise/kibble for a normal recall. But smelly fishy type treats will probably always have their uses!
 
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Thank you JoanneF that is (kind of) encouraging! What is liver cake and/or dried sausage? Sounds like I need some - the treats I am buying other than kibble are too pricey!
 
Liver cake is fab!

500g liver (approximately; a supermarket pack is about that size)

250g flour - I use gluten free because I give away lots of liver cake and some dogs are gluten intolerant)

1 egg

Blitz the liver and egg using a hand blender until it is a smooth, runny, sloppy mess. Stir in the flour.

Bake in a small (6x9) tray lined with parchment at 170 for about 15 minutes until a knife comes out clean.

When it's cold, cut into pieces - I like KitKat finger sized - and freeze. It freezes in separate pieces so you can bring out one at a time. Costs about £1 to make, lasts for months and has no rubbish in it.
 
THAT is amazingly fantastic! Thank you! I'm off to buy some liver! Brilliant.
 
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