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Parvo Virous

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billyboy45

billyboy45

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Just went on the web,and took this from the 1st FAQ,i seen,hope it aint ileegal to copy this down,or im up the creek without a paddle.The order is all mixed up ,but i think this will show why i innoculate so early.

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Quote below posted by Kris

when parvo first came about years ago we were told that all the vets had to vaccinate against it was a cat entiritis vaccine so maybe thats where it came from?parvo is an airbourne virus,so a dog doesnt neccessarily have to come into contact with a carrier in order to get it.i used to use nobivac as it was the only vaccine to cut through maternal antibodies in dobes and rotts as these two germanic breeds seem to keep maternal antibodies longer than any other breed of dog. 
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There was 2 strains of Parvo Virus initially discovered, CPV1 which was only really fatal to puppies and CPV2. CPV2 is alleged to be a mutation of feline distemper virus, hence people blaming cat's for the infection. Subsequently to CPV2 another mutation was discovered, CPV2a, an even more aggresive strain. Vet's at the time resorted to Feline Distemper Virus vaccinations for protection and crossed their fingers. Twenty years on theres new mutations CPV2b / CPV2c and so it goes on. It is alleged that all dogs have some immunity to the original CPV1 and CPV2 strains even if they've been vaccinated inadequately.

The reason I have great concerns about unqualified individuals administering vaccines without efficient knowledge is because they can be inadvertently encouraging mutation of a virus. The repercussions as such could be as dire as when CPV2a hit with no vaccine available and us all crossing our fingers.

Parvo is not currently an airborne virus, it is feasibly that an infected dog could infect other dogs via aerosol microbial infection (i.e. through saliva particles created in an aerosol spray through something such as sneezing) But the general feeling is it's faecal material that's loaded with virus. The viruses' ability to withstand extremes of temperature is quite high and it can be quite resistant. It's ability to remain dormant is the reason many think it's airborne - owners cannot identify a source of contamination recently when it may well be the contamination occured 9 months ago.

Viruses cover themselves with a layer of protein to protect themselves from destruction, generally most viruses are weak, for example HIV fails to live little longer than a minute in the outside air. Parvo is more virulant but the reason Chlorine bleach is recommended is because bleach had the ability to break down protein very easily (the reason blood turns brown when bleach is added is because of the proteins being destructed) The theory is, break down the protein layer to expose the DNA and the virus is destroyed but knowing that swabbing with bleach had adequately destroyed the virus is no guarantee as your reliant that the amount used has penetrated enough. Agents such as Vircon (used by veterinary practices) are specifically aimed at destroying Parvo Virus alone therefore their ability to break down this protein is more specific to the virus and therefore more effective.

It's interesting that Dobes and Rottweilers retain their maternal anti-bodies longer than the norm as these dogs are particularly susceptible to CPV, I presume this is either due to poor immunity within the breed or more likely (and substantiating Kris's comments) puppies have been vaccinated with too high a level of maternal anti-bodies to sufficiently develop adequate immunity to the dead virus vaccination. (Just goes to show that even vets who don't keep up their knowledge can cause problems so imagine the hazards with anyone doing it!) :unsure:

Quoting Billyboy below,

OPP'S.Hold on a minute Jac.Who said my pup's contrcted Parvo.lol.Come on girl,read up
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Billy, I read you had Parvo Virus in the past, it was your comments about cat's that made me presume that you thought these were the cause for your contamination back then and I wanted to clarify that it's unlikely. Obviously you've identified a suspected source of contamination via a visitor infecting the puppies but in fairness to the person concerned, as the virus was active within your area it's just as feasible that they was infected through various sources of exposure.

Ensuring outdoor footwear is not worn in proximity of the pups and hand washing are good infection control guidelines for any breeder to have but realistically, if your living in an area with CPV prevalent you need to go on total lockdown to protect a litter of pups and I think you'd be very lucky to escape infection. :(

Further reading,

Merck Veterinary Manual

Wikipedia - Canine Parvo Virus

I hope that this was a worthwhile post as it's been an immensly long one to type! :lol:
 
I recently met a strange woman up in fife that was letting people view 3 day old german shepherds and allowing kids to run in and out.

The possibilities were shocking!!

Parvo and the rest.

I found that info quite scary.

Informative but scary lol
 
Have alway's used domestos bleach on my concrete run's Jac,although ASDA bleach is everybit as good now,and do them morning and again at bedtime.I close the pup's in to do this for about 1/2 hour,so that it has a good bit of time on the ground before i rince it away.Also,if i see scour,i wash away what i cant lift,with bleach.At least with bleach,you get more than just a smell.Most people use Jeye's fluid,but the time of the footnmouth,it was bottom of the list,as a deterent on the farm i do a bit of work on.I also have a basin of bleach that i make doggy visitor's do their feet in,Dont do it,dont get in yard,Simple.Have an electric fence going all the way around the pup's pen,so that no animal intruder's can get in.There would be a problem with magpie's mind,but i can do nothing about that ,unless i was willin to sit from dawn till dusk.I guess though,as far as doing my own injecting,ive been doing this with dog's for as far back as i care to remember,and knowing exactly how to inject by either intramuscular or subcutaneous,is now 2nd nature,as i also worked on a farm at time's for almost 20 year's,and still do,these thing's are a nesesity to know.Ive even had to set drip's up,and inject straight into the vein on ocasion's,(sometime's without having time to even shave the leg) as the only life saving option,to save the live's of fallen livestock,through eclampsia,or whatever.See us country boy's are a breed of our own,and when you've got one vet to look after hundred's of small farm's,+all the small animal stuff,then you have to learn how to survive,or go under.Every farmer i know,or have worked for,has their own way's,and medicine cabnet's,and believe me,it would scare the pant's of you,what contraption's you'd find in some of them.The time we had the Parvo over 10 year's ago,it was at a different house,which my nephew now own's,and breed's Rotty's at.He's just had a litter of 2 dog's and 3 bitches,out of an imported german bitch,one of the old type,and thankfully the yard is still clear.What i did at the time,was tumble and burn all the shed's,and we also dug up the concrete,and re layed the whole yard.The extreme's i know,but it worked.I do know some stupid people though,who will bring home innoculation's and leave them in a cabinet or the car for day's before using them.I get mine and they go straight in a cool box till i get home,and if ive forgotten the cool box,i'll buy a bottle of chilled spring water,and they go in the bottle,and then straight in the fridge at below 2 deg,if i cant use them imediately.What i used to do,and still would with a small litter,is take them with me,and do em soon as i come out the vet's.Oxitosin,(spelt wrong i know)is another thing we find we must use on the farm quite often,(before the calving jack come's out),and i have also had to use it several time's throughout my life,with my bitches.Vet's will only give this to someone they know is compitent enough to use it.But again,only if completely nesesary,to save live's of bitch or pup's.Opps,sorry Jac,have gone on ,as usual. Let's just hope and pray that none on here will ever have to witness 1st hand ,the dreaded Parvo. ...Billy...
 
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wild whippies said:
Found this American Website that's very informative on all aspects of the virus. Marvistavet Canine Parvo Virus
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Have just finished reading through all that Jac,and found it brill.One thing that i did find to my liking,and something that was stepped upon a night or two ago by Peony,on the new litter thread,was the fact that she said her vet laughed in her face when he seen the name of the vaccine i used ,as it was'nt even heard off,or recognized in you're country.The name of the vaccine i used last year,and have used this year too is the Vanguard puppy vaccine.It is one of,if not the best vaccine 's you can get,for Parvo,and is one of the better ,what they call,TITER vaccine's,and is a live vaccine,which is way better than the dead one's.Her vet had never heard tell of the stuff,and said it was'nt even a recognised vaccine.Sorry Caroline,i did'nt realy want to put this up,but i was made out to be some sort of stupid so n so,at that time,and was very angry,as you know,about what was said about me,and about youre vet making a puplic laugh of me.I now hope you can see,that you're vet was the asshole,and not me.That's if you have read this.See,billygoat 45,as you prefere to call me at time's know's a wee bit more than you think.You're pup is definately well covered now Caroline,if he was done all over again.Just out of interest,what vaccine did he use.Post number 263 would be the one that i think need's looked at,on the NEW LITTER thread,as i do need my name cleared on this one folk's.Anyone interested should go to the web page that Jac has so kindly took the trouble to put the link up for,and on the last page ,where the best vaccine's are listed,the one i use is at the top of the list. :cheers: Jac,i owe you one. ...Billy...
 
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Few factors to consider though Billy, firstly the information isn't dated and I believe there's been discrepancies with certain vaccination agents as recent as early 2006. I couldn't access me medical log in to get more detailed info so I don't know if this is specifically referring to boosters or first time vaccination and what agents were showing problems and specifically what these problems were.

The term titre (or titer, depending on if your English or American) refers to a unit which is expressed in a substance. Nobivac, a popular vaccination agent in the UK carrys a high titre level and was particularly succesful in breeds of dogs my Mum mentioned that had problems developing immunity due to the maternal acquired immunity remaining high in these breeds. The high titres overwhelm the maternal anti-bodies with excess titres being able to stimulate the pups own immunity. Now whether a high titre agent is worthwhile giving to a puppy that is older and has thus lost a greater amount of maternal immunity is debatable for the vets as I imagine there's possible risks, remember this is live vaccine that's being administered (albeit modified)

Vanguard (specifically Vanguard Plus) contains high titre levels, it's also the vaccination my friend ''imports''. I'm not saying it's inadequate in anyway but there may be a valid reason why Peony's vet expressed such distaste. Whether Archer's titre levels are through the roof now is another debate for the vet but so long as they're within range, that's all that matters. :thumbsup:

It should be noted that incorrect storage and transportation can comprimise the effectiveness of the product along with Aseptic techniques being used during administration. The most important aspect of all is the precaution that Epinephrine needs to be available to hand in case Anaphylaxis occurs, a potentially fatal risk with any vaccination.

I do hope that I'm getting through to people.
 
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billyboy45 said:
Have alway's used domestos bleach on my concrete run's Jac,although ASDA bleach is everybit as good now,and do them morning and again at bedtime.I close the pup's in to do this for about 1/2 hour,so that it has a good bit of time on the ground before i rince it away.Also,if i see scour,i wash away what i cant lift,with bleach.At least with bleach,you get more than just a smell.Most people use Jeye's fluid,but the time of the footnmouth,it was bottom of the list,as a deterent on the farm i do a bit of work on.I also have a basin of bleach that i make doggy visitor's do their feet in,Dont do it,dont get in yard,Simple.Have an electric fence going all the way around the pup's pen,so that no animal  intruder's can get in.There would be a problem with magpie's mind,but i can do nothing about that ,unless i was willin to sit from dawn till dusk.I guess though,as far as doing my own injecting,ive been doing this with dog's for as far back as i care to remember,and knowing exactly how to inject by either intramuscular or subcutaneous,is now 2nd nature,as i also worked on a farm at time's for almost 20 year's,and still do,these thing's are a nesesity to know.Ive even had to set drip's up,and inject straight into the vein on ocasion's,(sometime's without having time to even shave the leg) as the only life saving option,to save the live's of fallen livestock,through eclampsia,or whatever.See us country boy's are a breed of our own,and when you've got one vet to look after hundred's of small farm's,+all the small animal stuff,then you have to learn how to survive,or go under.Every farmer i know,or have worked for,has their own way's,and medicine cabnet's,and believe me,it would scare the pant's of you,what contraption's you'd find in some of them.The time we had the Parvo over 10 year's ago,it was at a different house,which my nephew now own's,and breed's Rotty's at.He's just had a litter of 2 dog's and 3 bitches,out of an imported german bitch,one of the old type,and thankfully the yard is still clear.What i did at the time,was tumble and burn all the shed's,and we also dug up the concrete,and re layed the whole yard.The extreme's i know,but it worked.I do know some stupid people though,who will bring home innoculation's and leave them in a cabinet or the car for day's before using them.I get mine and they go straight in a cool box till i get home,and if ive forgotten the cool box,i'll buy a bottle of chilled spring water,and they go in the bottle,and then straight in the fridge at below 2 deg,if i cant use them imediately.What i used to do,and still would with a small litter,is take them with me,and do em soon as i come out the vet's.Oxitosin,(spelt wrong i know)is another thing we find we must use on the farm quite often,(before the calving jack come's out),and i have also had to use it several time's throughout my life,with my bitches.Vet's will only give this to someone they know is compitent enough to use it.But again,only if completely nesesary,to save live's of bitch or pup's.Opps,sorry Jac,have gone on ,as usual. Let's just hope and pray that none on here will ever have to witness 1st hand ,the dreaded Parvo.  ...Billy...
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I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU FIND THE TIME TO POST ON K9 Mr HARPOOR, WITH YOU READING SO MUCH TEX, AND THE FULL TIME SECURITY WORK YOUR DOING.

AT THE END OF THE DAY BILLY, WHO DOES THE HEALTH CHECK ON YOUR PUPS BILLY

I THINK YOU'VE BEEN READING 2 MANY OF JAMES ALFRED WIGHT OBE BOOKS.

TOM
 
Good Morning BillyBOY45. HUGE thanks for the delightful pm you sent me at 3am this morning .................. dont you ever need to sleep????? ALWAYS nice to awake to such friendliness ! (Not)

Anyway, lets get back to the issues of your last years litters vaccinations shall we??

Firstly, let me ask a question to any K9 members here. Lets just say they had bought a puppy, whose breeder had vaccinated it. They then took the pup to their own vets, for a preliminary health check and also, to socialise the young dog, so that they wouldnt associate the vets with unpleasantness, from an early age. ( All of this is free of charge, might I add) The vet compliments the new owner on the puppy, says its in good condition and is a bright young thing. He then asks about the vaccinations ....................new owner explains that the course is apparently complete and puppy will be soon able to go out and about in the big, wide, germ filled world.

The vet is duly shown the vaccination card, and this is where he has a wry chuckle. Yes, it appears that vaccinations have been done, and yes, there are batch numbers of a sort, on the card, but they are not complete.

Am I to ignore the word of the vet , who, lets face it, even if he is looking to get my 'hard earned money', surely has more experience when it comes to protocol with vaccinations etc????

********************************************************

This post has been edited because it breaks one of K9's rules as follows:

Do not use K9 Community to air your grievances.

As examples: If you have a problem with a breeder, handler, partner, co-owner, or kennel keep it private; do not complain about them publicly on K9.

If someone on K9 asks about a particular breeder or kennel and you have negative information about them DO NOT put that information on the board get in touch privately.
 
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Thanks for the pm Helen and for editing my post. :thumbsup:

Might I just say though, that YET AGAIN, the relevent points have been lost.

Should anyone want to know what they were , please contact me via pm.

All I am trying to do here is advise prospective owners of ANY puppy, to make sure that the innoculation CARD is filled in correctly and therefore worth having.

Oh and BILLYBOY45, sincere apologies for my making a witticism regarding your nickname, I wont be thinking of you as a person with a sense of humour again. :- "
 
Billy, I hope and pray to god that the young k9 ers and the naive don't practise what you are preaching about your D.I.Y. veterinary skills (if thats the right word to use) because you are a amateur.

If where you are based in Ireland comes under the UK I'm sure DEFRA would be very interested in your D.I.Y. activities. :- "

A very concerned Jayne
 
i remember the field trial studies that were done at michael quinneys adoram kennels many years ago by the nobivac company.they showed the titre levels of a number of dogs but especially the rotties that michael owned.when i saw the pre test titre levels and the levels after vaccinating with nobivac i was amazed and decided then and there id use no other vaccine and i even had to go to a vet in another town to get my pups done as my own vet at the time used another vaccine.i know in the states when i lived there youd take a litter in to the vet hed show you how to vaccinate and youd just buy the vaccine and bring the pups home and give them the shots yourself,and it only cost cents to buy the vaccine pity the vets in the uk dont do this as i think the whole vaccination scheme is a big rip off.i cant see any problem with vaccinating your dogs yourself as long as its properly done and is done under the supervision of a vet and the vaccine is kept properly as jac says so that its not endangered.it does annoy me that a vaccine which costs pennies is suddenly endowed with miraculous powers by being injected by a vet and turns into something thats worth pounds :- " and as most on here know i am not one for advocating diy anything to do with animals as i believe that a vet who has been trained and has many years experience is the person to sort any problems out health wise unless its something that can be dealt with by a breeder.the more intelligent breeder knows their limitations and wont self medicate any animal where he knows hes out of his depth.having said that ive had a bitch with total interuterine inertia and rang the vet and asked for an oxytocin injection and he refused saying she wasnt that far gone in labour and i knew she was and that in this particular breed they were renowned for sitting back and pretending it wasnt happening to them as the owner of the champion stud dog had told me so and was adamant that id need an oxytocin injection.many hours later,one dead pup,me threatening to castrate the vet without any instruments but my bare hands and he gave her an injection and she produced the rest of the litter ok.sometimes a breeder might just know a bit more about an individual breed and their idiosyncrasies than the vet,especially when it comes to whelping as a lot of vets ive known over the years have never bred a litter of pups and usually only see a bitch when theres trouble.

also have to say im amazed that parvo is now said not to be airborne as every vet i ever spoke to for many years said it was :blink:
 
I think were the confusion lies is that people have different views as to what constitutes airborne transmission. A virus that can float around in the air for a long period of time is considered to be airborne. I can't think of a single virus that is airborne actually. - I could be wrong but I doubt that any virus that carries such fatalities would actually mutate to become airborne because it would self destruct very quickly.

If Parvo Virus mutated tomorrow and became airborne, the whole world would be effected and there'd be 2 possible consequences, 1) The canine species would be wiped out totally and become extinct or 2) Certain canines would have an immunity to this virus, survive and their offspring would possess this immunity.

Viruses like all living species need to reproduce, without hosts it too would become extinct.

Aerosol transmission is another matter, examples being cold and flu viruses, they transmit by infecting the respiratory tract, the inflammation and irritation these cause stimulates us into sneezing & coughing. The whole process of being able to survive in a water droplet is complex and doesn't just involve floating around, there's quite a few mutations that occur in order to perform this feat and the reason we all never become immune to influenza is because it's always mutating slightly in order to survive.

Now the thing that sort of explains why Parvo-Virus is unlikely to be transmitted via an aerosol spray is fairly simple, infected dogs don't sneeze or cough. I would be worried if they start doing though. :unsure:
 
wat a lot of info that should do it then -_- -_- -_- -_- very sore eyes :lol: :lol: julie :thumbsup:
 
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wild whippies said:
I think were the confusion lies is that people have different views as to what constitutes airborne transmission. A virus that can float around in the air for a long period of time is considered to be airborne. I can't think of a single virus that is airborne actually. - I could be wrong but I doubt that any virus that carries such fatalities would actually mutate to become airborne because it would self destruct very quickly. If Parvo Virus mutated tomorrow and became airborne, the whole world would be effected and there'd be 2 possible consequences, 1) The canine species would be wiped out totally and become extinct or 2) Certain canines would have an immunity to this virus, survive and their offspring would possess this immunity.

Viruses like all living species need to reproduce, without hosts it too would become extinct.

Aerosol transmission is another matter, examples being cold and flu viruses, they transmit by infecting the respiratory tract, the inflammation and irritation these cause stimulates us into sneezing & coughing. The whole process of being able to survive in a water droplet is complex and doesn't just involve floating around, there's quite a few mutations that occur in order to perform this feat and the reason we all never become immune to influenza is because it's always mutating slightly in order to survive.

Now the thing that sort of explains why Parvo-Virus is unlikely to be transmitted via an aerosol spray is fairly simple, infected dogs don't sneeze or cough. I would be worried if they start doing though. :unsure:

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i read on a site about parvo that theres not an inch of ground in the country that doesnt contain the virus,and that the only reason that it isnt at epidemic proportions is a)cos of vaccination and b)cos some dogs have natural immunity to it.other wise wed be swamped with it.talking of mutations isnt this what happened with the ebola virus in africa?it mutated into an airborne disease(caused by sneezing and coughing)and spread so rapidly that nearest village came down with it with frightening fatality rates :(
 
kris said:
i read on a site about parvo that theres not an inch of ground in the country that doesnt contain the virus,and that the only reason that  it isnt at epidemic proportions is a)cos of vaccination and b)cos some dogs have natural immunity to it.other wise wed be swamped with it.talking of mutations isnt this what happened with the ebola virus in africa?it mutated into an airborne disease(caused by sneezing and coughing)and spread so rapidly that  nearest village came down with it with frightening fatality rates :(
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There probably isn't an inch of ground that isn't infected with dormant spores, however, it's the amount present that's important. On average Marvistavet states an infectious dose of 1000 particles is required to cause infection in an unvaccinated dog however some dogs can fall victim through smaller doses, presumably dogs that are immunocompromised. The presence of small amounts of the virus being present everywhere is probably why dogs are generally immune to CPV1 and CPV2. It's a bit like MRSA, there's plenty of healthy people walking around with the bacteria in them, it's only when they become immunocompromised that the bacteria takes advantage and there's different strains of this bacteria too so basically it's a combination of the type of strain, the amount present and the hosts immunity that decides whether an infection will develop or not. Puppies are obviously the vulnerable one's here as there immunity is low and undeveloped. Kennel cough is a good example of this, it effects puppies and the frail elderly dog with much greater severity than the mature adult.

Ebola holds only 1 case of airborne transmission to date, and that was within monkeys in a lab in Virginia (Reston Ebolavirus) it was lethal to the monkeys but the humans exposed survived.

The other strains were again infective through aerosol, causing severe bleeding in it's hosts and cleverly induced seizures in them to literally spray the infectious blood onto potential new hosts. The reason it used such radical measures was although it could survive in droplets, it's ability to survive long enough was extremely limited and it so incapaciated it's infected hosts that they was too ill to travel a distance. In other words it burns itself out quickly. The infected dead were a bigger hazard as the virus could survive longer within a host so care had to be taken with their disposal. It was also why the infection spread with such speed within the villages concerned as mourning practices in Africa involve extensive touching of the dead and direct contact was felt to be a far more favourable means of transmission.
 
Can i just conclude here to say that if people did'nt innoculate their own pup's,then the diseasis of yesteryear,like Distemper,might not have died away,like it did,and Parvo would be wiping out more litter's than could ever be imagined.With so many litter's of greyhound pup's being bred in ireland,especialy in some of the big breeding kennel's ,where sometime's up on 10 litter's could be born in one week,it is a must to keep all diseases down to a nill count,and as vet's refuse to innoculate,till pup.s are 10 week's,(though there are 2 here in the vilage where i live,who wont touch a pup till it's 14 week's now),then it's a matter of having to do you're own,like it or not,if you want you're pup's to have a better chance of survival.When you've had the heartache,of watching puppie's waste away,through dehydration,and Parvo,and seen that far away,sunkin eye staring you in the face,as if to say help me ,please,then i can promise you that it will make you think twice about not injecting, and protecting you're pup's.Add to this the fact that you will be out a small fortune not only trying to save them once they've got it,but rebuilding you're whole kennel's from almost scatch,or having a kennel that can't accomodate puppie's.For the last 11 year's or so,ive done all my own innoculating,with no side effect's or losses.(Is that so wrong)Some might say,that i do it to save money,in fact it has been said.But concidering the fact that to innoculate my pup's,mean's another 4 week's feeding,cleaning,and looking after,noise nuisance to neighbour's with the chance off complaint's,as i live in a small private estate.The chance of a pup breaking a leg,and having to pay vet bill's,+buying a load extra bedding,worm tab's etc.I can assure you,im out a hell of a lot more money than im saving.I don't charge a lot for my pup's,and have been asked why i sell them so cheap,as to some other's.(This was by people who bought from me).I dont breed for monetary purposes,as my only reason for breeding is for a few pup's of my own.Unfortunately,we can't determin just how many pup's we ger in a litter,so the surplus have to be sold on,or PTS imediately.My aim is to give the new owner's the best chance in the world of getting their pup's reared to adulthood.If this mean's im out of pocket,then so be it.I have a good name in doing a pup,and one that i hope to keep.I dont do it for me,but as i said,i have a duty to the little live's that i was responsible for bringing into the world,and that mean's doing thing's that maybe should'nt be done .In responce to summit Kris said.I had a bitch,who was 10 day's overdue,and the vet tried to tell me she was'nt in labour,when i new she was.He gave her summit,thiough i did'nt know what.12 midnight,i had to rush her to a different vet,as she was almost dead.The other vet pupped the bitch a few minute's later,after administrating oxytocin.Let's remember here ,that we only have wee small country practice's ,compared to what you would find in most part's of england,and they know nothing about running dog's.Most are also farmer's ,and would just love to see the end of lurcher's.
 
billyboy45 said:
Can i just conclude here to say that if people did'nt innoculate their own pup's,then the diseasis of yesteryear,like Distemper,might not have died away,like it did,and Parvo would be wiping out more litter's than could ever be imagined.With so many litter's of greyhound pup's being bred in ireland,especialy in some of the big breeding kennel's ,where sometime's up on 10 litter's could be born in one week,it is a must to keep all diseases down to a nill count,and as vet's refuse to innoculate,till pup.s are 10 week's,(though there are 2 here in the vilage where i live,who wont touch a pup till it's 14 week's now),then it's a matter of having to do you're own,like it or not,if you want you're pup's to have a better chance of survival.When you've had the heartache,of watching puppie's waste away,through dehydration,and Parvo,and seen that far away,sunkin eye staring you in the face,as if to say help me ,please,then i can promise you that it will make you think twice about not injecting, and protecting you're pup's.Add to this the fact that you will be out a small fortune not only trying to save them once they've got it,but rebuilding you're whole kennel's from almost scatch,or having a kennel that can't accomodate puppie's.For the last 11 year's or so,ive done all my own innoculating,with no side effect's or losses.(Is that so wrong)Some might say,that i do it to save money,in fact it has been said.But concidering the fact that to innoculate my pup's,mean's another 4 week's feeding,cleaning,and looking after,noise nuisance to neighbour's with the chance off complaint's,as i live in a small private estate.The chance of a pup breaking a leg,and having to pay vet bill's,+buying a load extra bedding,worm tab's etc.I can assure you,im out a hell of a lot more money than im saving.I don't charge a lot for my pup's,and have been asked why i sell them so cheap,as to some other's.(This was by people who bought from me).I dont breed for monetary purposes,as my only reason for breeding is for a few pup's of my own.Unfortunately,we can't determin just how many pup's we ger in a litter,so the surplus have to be sold on,or PTS imediately.My aim is to give the new owner's the best chance in the world of getting their pup's reared to adulthood.If this mean's im out of pocket,then so be it.I have a good name in doing a pup,and one that i hope to keep.I dont do it for me,but as i said,i have a duty to the little live's that i was responsible for bringing into the world,and that mean's doing thing's that maybe should'nt be done .In responce to summit Kris said.I had a bitch,who was 10 day's overdue,and the vet tried to tell me she was'nt in labour,when i new she was.He gave her summit,thiough i did'nt know what.12 midnight,i had to rush her to a different vet,as she was almost dead.The other vet pupped the bitch a few minute's later,after administrating oxytocin.Let's remember here ,that we only have wee small country practice's ,compared to what you would find in most part's of england,and they know nothing about running dog's.Most are also farmer's ,and would just love to see the end of lurcher's.
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So what are you implying Billy? These vet/farmers who administer the innoculations and (quote) Summit, though I don't know what (unquote) are intentionally giving our lurchers the wrong medication.

That is a very strong accusation to make Billy! Or have I miss read what your saying?

ps. What do you charge for your pups Billy?

Jayne

pps. Dr Shipman comes to mind after reading your post Billy (w00t)
 
Most vet fees are ridiculous....if i ever breed a litter you can be rest assured that i will be injecting the pups myself....most pharmaceuticals play on the fear factor when advertising their products....i look after and care for my dogs very well....but they are only dogs. I don't have pet insurance and never will. If any of my dogs were to take a serious illness which will cost a small fortune....the dog will be put to sleep.
 
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