My furry baby has a bite worse than his bark

[Violet Turner]

I recommend stopping waking up in the night all this will do is interupt his sleeping pattern and confuse him when he is a little older... Playing/wanting to play with other dogs is a hugely important skill so let him play, see if your vets do puppy partys they are great fun! You should take him on 2 walks both an hour long and then he will burn off energy...

 

[JudyN]

You should take him on 2 walks both an hour long and then he will burn off energy...

An hour-long walk is far too long for a 12-week-old pup. The general rule of thumb is 5 minutes per month of age, so his walks should be around 15 minutes. Though they can be longer if there's plenty of sniffing breaks, sitting on a park bench watching the world go by, and so on.

 

[JoanneF]

I recommend stopping waking up in the night all this will do is interupt his sleeping pattern and confuse him when he is a little older.

I'm afraid I disagree with this, at 11 weeks toilet training is more important and every successful outdoor toilet helps embed the message.

Playing/wanting to play with other dogs is a hugely important skill so let him play

I'm afraid I disagree with this too. Being friendly to other dogs is good but being dog neutral is IME better. We don't feel the need to interact with every other human we meet, it's the same for dogs. As a puppy he may not find all dogs are tolerant of his exuberant behaviour. Puppy parties can be helpful if they are well run but the ones that are a free for all with puppies running amok are overwhelming for some puppies and do more harm than good.

You should take him on 2 walks both an hour long and then he will burn off energy...

This is quite dangerous advice. The recommendation (from the Kennel Club and others) is 5 minutes per month of age. At 11 weeks he should not be walking for more than 15 minutes at a time as his bones and joints are still forming.

 

[JoanneF]

@JudyN, we cross-posted again!

 

[Mad Murphy]

Im not overkeen on this whole 5 minute rule with some people taking it far to literally. But its true that pups need rest just like little children.
So short walks, little bits of training and lots of bonding are good at a young age. Besides the more you walk a dog(esp the hunting type ) the more fit and stronger he will become so at first a good 30 minute walk will exhaust him enough for you to get him to relax but their stamina will grow just like an athlete and by the time they are a year they will be adrenaline junkies who run for miles and you wont be able to tire them out and then what?


I also agree that at 11 weeks every request to go out should be treated as a positive and normally the night time waking stops by itself again the same as with little babies.. As they grow and they gain control of their bodies they request less night time wees.


Oh and puppy play dates... My idea of hell. A good controled meeting is fine, a walk with a friend is great , but most of these silly play date things are just loads of pups running wild and getting out of control.

 

[leashedForLife]

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I must say that i've never in my life limited a pup's walks in duration by their AGE - we go where we go, & if s/he's a little warm or gets a bit tired, we stop. Every pup is different, & i know darned well that my Akita, at just 10 tender weeks of age, was going for walks that lasted 30-mins one way.
It was late autumn, so cool weather, & she never turned a hair, & she'd gladly have gone on - we were walking, not jogging or climbing the Matterhorn.

That said, U do need to bear in mind that the pup needs enuf gas in the tank to get back - unless U intend to carry her or him!

- terry

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[VizMum]

An update….

Our bundle of joy is now 15 weeks old. While the biting hadn’t ceased it did seem to ease a little, only now it’s come back full force, along with barking. Our boy has found his voice.

He now barks at us, jumps up & bites. We’re trying to ignore him when he is like this (which seems to be pretty much all the time he is awake now), staying quiet and turning our backs to him but then our backsides or legs get a chomping (hard to stay quiet, most sounds from us are then involuntary!)

We say a very firm no then he has time out in his crate. This process is repeated throughout the evening until bedtime.

He does go out for walks, but we have yet to let him off the lead. Recall isn’t happening. I’m thinking that there is a lot of pent-up energy in him and he needs a good run to work it off. I’ve bought an extendable lead to see what he does with a little more freedom when we’re out.

Behaviour extinction was mentioned previously on this thread, so perhaps this is why we seem to have gone backwards. I suppose I’m just looking for reassurance that this is still normal puppy behaviour as the barking and jumping up seems like a bad escalation.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

 

[JoanneF]

Perseverence with short time outs (i prefer removing yourself as the source of the excitement and also not to associate the crate with bad things).

He needs to play and let off steam, but dogs have to learn to have quiet time too. So have playtime to get some of that energy, then cue a 'quiet time' period. This video shows how.

And these are good for controlling barking.

Kikopup Barking Series: Kikopup Barking Series - YouTube

You might find if you do the short training sessions in the evening that they tire him out. Training is mentally tiring for puppies.

 

[VizMum]

We didn’t want to use the crate for time outs - our place is open plan so we installed some baby gates at the openings. That said, now he is getting bigger he can lunge over the gates and therefore get to us to resume the biting. Unfortunately the openings are big & we’ve not seen any higher ones on line that will fit. Not sure if buying around 3 and putting them next to each will be safe?

We do training with him in the evening but after about 5 mins he gets bored and starts biting.

I’ll watch the vids, thank you x

 

[JoanneF]

Even 5 minutes is quite a lot for training! Three 2 minute sessions is better than one 6 minute session.

Do you use a clicker? It might be helpful.

You need to charge the clicker first - click and simultaneous treat x 5. Then repeat after an interval, do that 5 times. Then he should realise that click means treat. Then you can use it to train.

Then, instead of saying 'no' (which is too broad brush and has little meaning) you could train him to stop by choosing an alternative behaviour that he has already learned. For example, sit. As soon as bottom hits floor, use the clicker to 'mark' the behaviour like taking a snapshot, then reward. A variation of that is to train 'off' bu saying the word as you remove him, clicking to mark the behaviour (you might need a second pair of hands) then rewarding by shoving a treat in his mouth which is now free of clothing and body parts.

 

[merlina]

Oh the mad half-hour at night! I so remember it with a working cocker we had (Olly the 'Orrible for the first few months!) It was so bad I lay along the back of our Chesterfield sofa many a time in an attempt to watch TV without my feet being savaged. Even then if he could launch himself successfully he'd take a flaying leap and swing on my long hair. But he grew out of it and by a year old was just so sweet. As he remained for the next 14 years (unless you were a pheasant.)
Oh how I miss him...don't worry- you'll get there.

 

[Maggie Mul]

I remember your first post as we were experiencing a similar thing. Things improved A LOT for us after our pup lost her baby teeth. However, I feel your pain as although our pup is now almost 7 months we still experience some biting, mostly first thing in the morning and tea timeish. I was only saying to my husband this morning that I can't believe we are still dealing with this issue!
However, it is a lot better and we noticed a real difference around 5 mths old. She is now generally a lot calmer and is happy to lie down and chill out on and off during the day when it is just me and her home alone. Our pup goes after my son every morning!! When he first comes downstairs, she is so happy to see him. Tail wagging, lots of licks and cuddles etc for a couple of minutes. Then he gets up to walk to the kitchen for breakfast and she attaches herself to his foot or bottom of his shorts biting and WON"T let go. It is such a pain. I have to intervene to try and get her to stop. When I say no, it seems to rile her up even more. This can also happen in the early evening. Now we are going to try and leave a very light weight leash on her in the morning and early evening, so that when she starts we can get her and put her in time out more easily. At the moment she runs away from us! We were leaving her and removing ourselves from the room but we are open plan, so we didn't really have anywhere to go! She could see us all the time unless we all went and stood in the toilet!! So now we also put her in her crate for time out. I am going to give her more kongs and stuff to chew on during the periods of the day when we know she is likely to be a bit bitey, so she has other things to focus on instead of just us. Maybe you could try that too? Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom but just to let you know you are not alone! I think this is still quite normal puppy behaviour. Our puppy is going to her first class on Friday, so it will be interesting to see what happens there. Keep going and good luck!

 

[JoanneF]

Sorry to hijack a little but -

Our puppy is going to her first class on Friday

Please make sure your class is an up to date one - if they start talking about dominance or alpha theory, walk away. I mention it as i think i remember you are in the UAE and i don't know whether their training approach is current.

 

[Maggie Mul]

Sorry to hijack a little but -



Please make sure your class is an up to date one - if they start talking about dominance or alpha theory, walk away. I mention it as i think i remember you are in the UAE and i don't know whether their training approach is current.

We are in Saudi! Very close! You have a great memory! Recently there have been a number of new pups added to the community where we live and there is a lady here who has done all her training in the UK. (She is a brit too) We have had her over for a few 1:1 sessions and she is very FF and has a similar approach to lots of you on here, so am assuming that can only be a good thing!!

 

[VizMum]

Even 5 minutes is quite a lot for training! Three 2 minute sessions is better than one 6 minute session.

Do you use a clicker? It might be helpful.

You need to charge the clicker first - click and simultaneous treat x 5. Then repeat after an interval, do that 5 times. Then he should realise that click means treat. Then you can use it to train.

Yes, we use a clicker and have also tried to redirect his behaviour by getting him to sit when he starts to play up. Sometimes this works, other times it doesn't. If he is really riled up it almost certainly doesn't.

Our boy has had two training classes (which are held outdoors), however, as mentioned, above his attention span isn't great and there is a lot of talking going on during the class. Perhaps he is too young for it? It's a "beginner's class" rather than a puppy class.

 

[JudyN]

Our boy has had two training classes (which are held outdoors), however, as mentioned, above his attention span isn't great and there is a lot of talking going on during the class. Perhaps he is too young for it? It's a "beginner's class" rather than a puppy class.

Pups vary - some are pretty calm at that age, some not so. In retrospect, I should have stayed for the first half-hour of each training class and then left, because most of the second half he would just jump up and bite which reinforced the behaviour. And in the first half, sometimes he'd get bored with 'sit, down, stand, down, sit' and decide to have a little lie-down instead - and who can blame him?! Always feel free to do what you think is right for YOUR dog - maybe just sit at the side and do a few watch me's, or call it a day, or whatever.

 

[leashedForLife]

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if U have an open-plan house & can't easily flee the scene, FIX THE DOG TO ONE SPOT with a tether -
& train by stepping out of reach of teeth / paws / claws, every time he jumps-up or gets snappy.

how-to:
Tethered to Success | Kerry Blue Terrier Foundation

Don't forget that every dog or pup needs immediate opps to sin again, over & over & over, or the penny won't drop; U can't give a dog a 60-second time-out & expect them to remember WHAT THEY DID to make U go away, it's too long a gap.
Abruptly turn away, step out of any reach, & ignore them for 5-seconds... then go back, they jump up? - Leave, 5-secs; go back, they snap? - LEAVE, 5-secs... etc, etc, etc.

here's a Golden with a habitual jumping habit, being retrained using a tether -

Layla's retraining & B-mod are recorded in 7 short clips, over a 5-week period - well worth watching, to see her progress.

- terry

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[Maggie Mul]

.

if U have an open-plan house & can't easily flee the scene, FIX THE DOG TO ONE SPOT with a tether -
& train by stepping out of reach of teeth / paws / claws, every time he jumps-up or gets snappy.

how-to:
Tethered to Success | Kerry Blue Terrier Foundation

Don't forget that every dog or pup needs immediate opps to sin again, over & over & over, or the penny won't drop; U can't give a dog a 60-second time-out & expect them to remember WHAT THEY DID to make U go away, it's too long a gap.
Abruptly turn away, step out of any reach, & ignore them for 5-seconds... then go back, they jump up? - Leave, 5-secs; go back, they snap? - LEAVE, 5-secs... etc, etc, etc.

here's a Golden with a habitual jumping habit, being retrained using a tether -

Layla's retraining & B-mod are recorded in 7 short clips, over a 5-week period - well worth watching, to see her progress.

- terry

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ooh, I like this! OUr pup jumps up a lot at people and tries to lick/nibble their face! I am going to try this!

 

[leashedForLife]

ooh, I like this!
Our pup jumps up a lot at people and tries to lick/nibble their face! I am going to try this!

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great! Let us know how U get on, please?

for anyone who doesn't want to install a self-screwing eyebolt in the baseboard to clip the tether to, there's also the PORTABLE tether version:
same 15 to 18-inches of free bike-cable between the clamps at each end, with either a swivel-base spring clip clamped on each end, or a swivel clamped on, with a double-ended spring clip in both swivels. [Any big-box hardware or home-improvement store can make up a custom bike-cable, using nylon-coated wire cable cut to length, & installing the clamps for U, with whichever swivel they sell permanently attached.]
The PORTABLE part is a 2-ft long hunk of 2" x 4" lumber.

Install the self-seating eyebolt an inch below the center, midway down a w-i-d-e side - a 4" side. // The eyebolt will be the "bottom" side of this board.
Choose a door in the house as the current training station - it can be a closet, a pass-thru, an entry door, the door to any room, whatever is convenient. Clip the cable to the eyebolt, open the door, & lay the 2x4 down behind it with the eyebolt facing the door, nearest the floor. Slide the cable under the door's edge, & close the door. The board is now trapped behind the door, the cable runs under the latched door, & all that remains is to clip the free end of the cable to the dog's BUCKLE collar or to the CHEST of a body-harness - U don't want to use any aversive collars, no prongs, no choke-chains or infinite-slip nylon collars!
U also don't use any aversive harnesses - if U own a no-pull harness, now is not the time to use it.
The dog's only "punishment" is simple feedback: If i jump-up or my teeth touch the person, THEY LEAVE ME.
If i keep my feet on the floor & my teeth to myself, THEY STAY BY ME. // It's that simple.

With good timing on the part of the person who approaches & retreats, a tether is one of the fastest ways i know to teach a pup to SIT TO GREET ppl. It's quick, pain-free, & crystal-clear to the puppy what makes ppl go away, vs what makes ppl stay & play.

A portable tether can be used anywhere - the dog can have training stations in every room of the house with a door - a closet, a bathroom door, a bedroom; upstairs, downstairs, anywhere. U can even use it outside, by laying the 2x4 behind 2 tree-trunks [pad the face of the 2x4 on both ends! - U don't want to scuff or bruise the bark], behind one set of legs on a 4-legged park-bench, etc.

cheers,
- terry

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[VizMum]

I hadn’t been bitten for two days on the trot which has never happened, thought we were finally making some headway but he really kicked off all last night AND this morning which he never usually does. It’s so frustrating!