Long Hair or Short Hair German Shepard?

[OneDogDad]

Hi all,

I’m thinking about a German Shepard joining our pack!

I’m just in the research stage now - learning about hip scores, straight backs, and all the other specific German Shepard terms.

Could anyone tell me if they think this is a short hair or long hair (been trimmed?).

also if he looks show line? Working line? DDR?

This is just a picture from google - but he would be my dream dog! Colouring. Hair length.

(I’ll start another thread for advice on food, etc. my miniature schnauzer has butternut box. But is it best for a GSD?)

Thanks all!
(I’d have to request a username change if I get my GSD! )

 

[Hemlock]

It isn't the face or the hair length you need to research (and kudos to you for researching) - it's the back and especially the hindlegs. Which you can't tell from a head shot. The temperament is vital too, but finding a GSD with a reasonable physique is so difficult that - as you've asked the specific question - I'd say take the hair length that comes with a healthy dog, or else it'll cost you a bomb and break your heart at the end of it.

All the best with whatever you decide.

 

[Tinytom]

My sister was looking for a GSD ...she found a breeder in Somerset...cant remember the name...she breeds long haired ones that have straight backs etc etc but they are very expensive £3,000 +.........and she has a waiting list ....
Do your research as they can have terrible health problems as hemlock says ....
Odd combo...mini schnauzer and GSD ..

 

[CoCo2014]

The photo is typical of a German Showline German Shepherd, it's coat is correctly described as a "Stock Haar" which is the standard coat & not a long coat.
However your first priority is to find a responsible breeder who breeds for temperament, character & health. All three are equally important.
As a breed they do not have any more health issues than any other pedigree breed.
Breeders who breed purely for colour, coat length etc are not breeding to improve the breed, they are breeding solely for money, as are breeders who breed from unhealthy tested, unregistered parents.
I would seriously advise you to fully research the breed & the types that are bred.
So many members of the public & non GSD owners put get stress on the term "straight back" thinking the GSD should have a "top line" that is level whilst stood like a Labrador, when in fact this is totally incorrect, a GSD should have a pronounced withers like this imported working line German GSD(His hip score is 0:0=0).

 

[Hemlock]

I respect your opinion but profoundly disagree.
It might be "incorrect" to have a level back and healthy hindlegs by modern breed standard written by show people for show people, but in terms of actual soundness and physical health, the loose back legs and bent spine are an abomination that should never have been inflicted on such a lovely breed (or indeed any breed). See them carry their weight on the forehand because their back and hindquarters can't support it. See by far the majority of photos showing the jaws open because of the strain on the front. Look at the older dogs bunny-hopping because their back end can no longer support them. Truly sad.

 

[CoCo2014]

I respect your opinion but profoundly disagree.
It might be "incorrect" to have a level back and healthy hindlegs by modern breed standard written by show people for show people, but in terms of actual soundness and physical health, the loose back legs and bent spine are an abomination that should never have been inflicted on such a lovely breed (or indeed any breed). See them carry their weight on the forehand because their back and hindquarters can't support it. See by far the majority of photos showing the jaws open because of the strain on the front. Look at the older dogs bunny-hopping because their back end can no longer support them. Truly sad.

The "bunny hopping"seen in older GSDs has nothing to do with the shape of the dog, it is causing by a genetic condition called Degenerative Myelopathy & is found in many breeds not just the GSD. It is totally unrelated to HD, the correctness of the level of the back etc
The height at the withers is important, because unlike breeds like Labrador, the GSD is a natural trotting breed & a dog with the"straight"topline in stance fall on forehand in movement requiring the dog to use more energy in movement.
As for the dogs gasping for air in photographs & carrying their weight on their fire quarters, most professional canine photographers prefer to have dogs mouths open in their shots.
Are you aware that from a veterinary point of view the fore quarters naturally carry most of the weight of the dog & that amputation of a rear limb is less serious for dogs than a front leg? There was a Kelpie competing in Obedience at Crufts with 3 legs & unless you were told it was not obvious(rear limb amputee)
I don't know how many GSDs you have owned or worked(as in stock work not protection or "canine activities) nor how much you know about the breed, but the GSD does not work like a Sheepdog it replaces the Shepherd(human) & is required to trot to keep the stock behind a line walked by the Shepherd(human) in the pasture & to act as a driving dog to move stock between pastures.
Von Stephanitz who was the "father" of the breed of 100 years ago, produced the original breed standard which has changed very little over time.
Sadly the breeders of the type that has the level top line in stance, do little in the way of health testing nor do they care about correct temperament & character, because they concentrate on the incorrect look of the breed & don't realise that"noted suspicion of strangers"was never included in the German Breed standard & was added to the English Alsatian standard to allow for the awful dogs breed in the UK in the 1940s to 1960s to win in the ring.
I take it that the dog in the photograph fails to meet your approval, because of his top line & that he has weak hindquarters(despite his perfect pelvic construction, his hip x rays are still used to show veterinarians what correct hip construction looks like)
When looking for a good breeder of GSDs the public need to know that the dogs have been fully health tested, elbows, hips plus DNA, as well as the correct temperament & character & come from bloodlines that are also fully health tested.
It's always interesting that everyone is a GSD expert especially those who have little or real knowledge & assume that what they read on the Internet or see on the TV. I have only been involved with my chosen breeds from since the mid 1950s(GSDs). 1970(ISDS working sheepdogs aka Border Collies) & the mid 1970s(Bearded Collies) plus my maternal grandfather owned German bloodline Boxers. So I don't have as much experience in dogs as some. I do have however quite an in-depth knowledge of the health of dogs(both physical & mental), because I became a profession force free trainer in the mid 1960s

 

[Hemlock]

I do so agree that anyone buying or breeding from any dog needs to be sure that health tests where appropriate have been done to avoid health and behaviour (due to pain) issues. I suspect you and I agree far more than we disagree - and that sensible discussion is important.

My mother trained Alsatians (as they were then known) for military work. In those days, these dogs were shaped correctly with backs and hindquarters that allowed free athletic movement. It was a breed she loved. For my credentials, as well as being well-known in the working dog world (not GSDs) I worked as a physiotherapist for some time, so I am well aware of conformation, how it affects movement, and how that affects behaviour (highly-qualified Behaviourist as well). However, I am only offering this information in reply to your natural curiosity about what I know. My experience and qualifications aren't relevant here as anyone with an eye for conformation and symmetry, and its effect on movement, can see what is wrong with the modern GSD. What of course they won't be able to see is the accompanying pain and the spinal and joint degeneration that follow.

The reason I have replied to this thread is to help someone who may be at risk of buying a dog in good faith that is highly likely to have major health problems which are endemic in the breed, which include those caused by the conformation. It's a valuable discussion.

I discovered with sadness the the show GSD standard was altered recently to allow for the trotting gait to be skewed, where one hindleg tracks outside the foreleg and the other inside. That is a direct result of poor conformation affecting the movement and then being justified by a smart change in rules rather than a smart change in perception. Not all GSDs have this fault - and it is definitely an unsoundness - but many do, and many more will now it is described as acceptable. Mentioned in the German Schaferhund show magazine a couple of years ago (a very good piece of work that I'm sure you have seen) is that following a winning male dog having a slightly concave upper muzzle, it is likely that this too will become a fashion as his stud career flourishes. The writer, well-known in those circles, did not approve.

I live in hope that this once-handsome breed will return to good health, but it will take a while, even with knowledge and commitment. It has been achieved with other breeds, so let's hope.

 

[Ross J]

We had a GSD short haired one,moults all the time.really lovely dog ,,passed away Feb 2020

 

[CoCo2014]

I don't know when your mother was training for the Army, but my dogs have been GSDs not Alsatians since my first in 1956, being either the offspring of German imports or German imports.

My dogs were a mix of HGH & Schutzhund(now IPG) bloodlines.

None had "straight"toplines in stance, but they had level toplines In trotting movement, which is the GSDs working pace.

GSDs are still the breed of choice for German sheep breeds as seen on the link below


Teo vom Messelhof (13.04.2023) | By Vom Messelhof | Facebook

 

[Hemlock]

Mother was training them - and Dobermann Pinschers - n the 1930s and 1940s. Definitely normal dog toplines then. Normal trotting as well.

 

[CoCo2014]

Mother was training them - and Dobermann Pinschers - n the 1930s and 1940s. Definitely normal dog toplines then. Normal trotting as well.

Oh dear the period of time when service dogs were gifted & unhealth tested & the"Alsatian"was normally a fearful dog prone to epilepsy & Haemophilia because of the original imports were of poor quality. Their main task for the Army was as guard dogs trained to attack as the prime duty, something fear aggressive dogs were good at.
A natural trotting dog with a "straight"back has to fall on forehand in movement by it's construction, you obviously have not viewed the faulty dogs in the video, whose lack of the"straight"back in stance renders them totally unable to carry out the work the breed was originally developed for.
Can you show a"straight"backed GSD trotting without falling on forehand working stock ? Would love to see if such dogs exist

 

[Hemlock]

Any dog of any type with sensible and non-exaggerated back and proportions can flow forward in a balanced manner. It's a pleasure to see them.

You clearly have no idea of what the Alsatians and other police and army dogs really did in years gone by. Yes they had to guard, but they also had to track criminals: Dobermanns were most successful at the time, even bettering bloodhounds and Alsatians, especially in arid conditions. They were specially bred, and though they weren't "health tested" because nothing was in those days, they weren't gifts and weren't unhealthy. No organisation is going to put that amount of work into animals that are quickly going to be let down by their health and soundness issues. Police and army are using Malinoise/GSD crosses nowadays, because of that.

Can I show a straight-backed GSD trotting? No, because they don't exist any more, but we can look at working breeds such as beagles, foxhounds, most terriers and husky types, and so many others, that can cover the ground easily for hours and miles. I'm talking working dogs that work, not the show-type derivatives.

We all come to any discussion with a different set of skills and experiences. It's been interesting to read your take on things. We won't agree, but that doesn't matter. Everyone is entitled to their point of view.

 

[CoCo2014]

>You clearly have no idea of what the Alsatians and other police and army dogs really did in years gone by. Yes they had to guard, but they also had to track criminals<
Sorry I do have quite a lot of knowledge of Army dogs from the 1930s & 1940s, because I talked to handlers & trainers of the dogs before they passed away, they all told me of the terrible quality of dogs they had to work with as they were all dogs "gifted" & not bred to work because no one in UK bred working line"Alsatians" & not many dogs were imported into UK from Germany in this period for obvious reasons.
There are plenty of "Alsatians" still out there, not bred to work of course & few are health tested & yet Joe Public think like you that these are better than working line bred GSDs. You can see these dogs at any show promoted by the "Alsatianists", just don't be surprised that if you see very unsound physically & mentally but with lovely"straight level"backs in stance