Licences for breeding

[JudyN]

My friend and I disagree over when a licence is needed to breed dogs. This is purely hypothetical - neither of us ever have any intention of breeding, but we don't let that hold us back from having a good argument

She believes that if you breed just one litter of pups and sell them, you always need a licence. I think that you don't need a licence if you just breed and sell one litter as a 'hobby', particularly if you keep one of the pups so can regard the rest of the litter as 'surplus'. I have found some legalese that I think backs me up, but legalese is always a bit murky.

Could anyone tell me who is right, please, preferably giving sources?

 

[excuseme]

I will have to search this one.
As you say the answer is, I think a bit murky.
It may depend on our local authorities.
But again I could be wrong as usual !

 

[excuseme]

Here is some information and questions answered for our local council.
This depends on how much you sell your puppies for and if you are making a profit.
I find so many of the answers confusing, depending on how the answers are understood.
If you are giving your puppies away, no license is required !


Animal licences FAQs.

 

[JudyN]

Thank you @excuseme

However, the relavant bit is 'If you breed any number of litters then you will need a licence if you are operating as a business. So if you are advertising dogs for sale, and a have a website or Social Media publicity indicating you have dogs for sale, you will probably be classified as operating as a business and should apply for a licence. If this provides an income of more than £1000 each year, you will require a licence.'

I've seen similar elsewhere, but you would only be counted as a business if you advertise and have website publicity or similar. My interpretation is that if I breed one litter and place an advert just saying something along the lines of 'My dog has had pups and I'm selling them for £2000 each' then I wouldn't be a business or need a licence, but if I worded it as 'JudyN Poodle Productions has some pups available at £2000' then I would be a business...

Another important bit is 'you will probably be classified as...', so it's not cut and dried. As you say, though, different councils may have slightly different rules - and different interpretations.

 

[Hemlock]

Aaaaand the licence is nothing to do with dog welfare - it's issued by the council.

 

[Flobo]

Hmm, I'm sure I've had conversations about this with the dog warden who inspects for all the animal related licences... but I can't remember the facts!
Defra website may be a place to look as the council dog wardens have to enforce the rulings they make with regards to meeting animal welfare standards and needing/applying for a licence, whether boarding or breeding...I think! But I may have that wrong, good memory is not my strong point, sadly!!

 

[Tinytom]

Havent different councils can be different....I used to be able to board 3 dogs with no license in the district I used to live ...I moved 3 miles up the road and that council insists on a boarding license

 

[CoCo2014]

My friend and I disagree over when a licence is needed to breed dogs. This is purely hypothetical - neither of us ever have any intention of breeding, but we don't let that hold us back from having a good argument


Could anyone tell me who is right, please, preferably giving sources?

 

[CoCo2014]

The Breeding and Sale of Dogs act
covers what you asking about along with the Compulsory microchipping 2015 act.
Not rocket science by any means

 

[JudyN]

Thanks CoCo - that act is out of date, though. The more recent legislation is here: Dog breeding licensing: statutory guidance for local authorities

Though I've also found this:

An operator is not likely to be selling animals as pets as a commercial business and will not need a licence if they can demonstrate:

• their transactions are irregular, with low numbers, frequency or volume of sales or adverts
• they sell animals as a hobby, for education or scientific advancement, and that they sell only surplus stock, not for profit - evidence could include reports or studies about the species published in scientific journals, pet trade or hobby media or self-published, contributions to conservation projects, competition entry forms, or membership of a relevant club or society
• that rehoming is not for profit, and does not meet the business tests (Dog breeding licensing: statutory guidance for local authorities)

Which would suggest that it's OK to breed and sell just one litter. However... what is meant by 'that rehoming is not for profit'? If your pedigree dog has a litter of, say, 9 pups and you keep one and sell 8, if you sell at the going rate, you'd be hard pressed not to make a profit.

 

[JoanneF]

If your pedigree dog has a litter of, say, 9 pups and you keep one and sell 8, if you sell at the going rate, you'd be hard pressed not to make a profit.

This is only what I've read, I have no experience so I'm happy to be corrected. But I've heard that good breeders, who do all the testing and put the time and effort into raising the puppies well, often just break even. If that.

That said, the difference between a litter of nine, as opposed to eight, could make a huge difference on these sorts of margins.

 

[JudyN]

This is only what I've read, I have no experience so I'm happy to be corrected. But I've heard that good breeders, who do all the testing and put the time and effort into raising the puppies well, often just break even. If that.

I was going to say that maybe that is for professional breeders who need appropriate premises, though I had forgotten about testing. So I had a quick google: Page title

This puts the total average cost at £3000, based on a litter of 5 pups (assuming - I assume that's £3000 in total, not per pup). Boston terriers are advertised for sale at £3000 each

It's an interesting list though, and contains things I hadn't thought of. I don't think all of the items are needed, though, e.g. £450 whelping pen, £150 puppy pen. It's all so different to when I was a child, when all that was needed was a large carboard box, a plank to go across doorways, a whole load of newspaper and old blankets, and several boxes of Ready Brek!

 

[Hemlock]

It's my opinion - worth no more and no less - with having bred a few litters to keep a pup for my own use - that if pups are properly fed, kept, and medicated (e.g. wormed) you don't make any profit at all. There's also the stud fee, care for the pregnant and lactating bitch, and advertising costs, with ruthless eradication of applicants offering unsuitable homes. That's not including vet fees, whether for standard inspection and vaccinations or more serious matters.

 

[CoCo2014]

Being a retired fraud officer I often visit certain "free"sites & contact breeders of litters asking simple health questions. I'm not shocked that many breeders are charging over £1,000 for puppies from non health tested & often unregistered litters. They certainly make huge profits eg litter of 10 puppies, no testing, no registration & own stud dog, price £1,700 each ! Oh & it was an unplanned litter as well. Definitely not a hobby & TBH should be treated as a business ! IMHO