Hi Robin in trouble

[excuseme]

What does that have to do with the law and ID on a collar? No one has mentioned what is lawful .
I wonder why I see so many dogs of various descriptions still pulling while wearing a harness.

 

[Hemlock]

When you see that, it's because the harness/lead arrangement isn't being used properly. It's frustrating that there are no instructions with them when they are bought. Used correctly, they are kind and effective.

 

[CoCo2014]

If you bothered to read the post fully, I stated a correct type of harness with a front & top ring(not the Julius type) used correctly with a lead attached to both rings, will help with pulling.

When you attach a lead to any collar or head collar & walk an unleash trained dog, the natural instinct is to pull away from the restriction. Even haltis or other head collars can cause damage to a dog's neck if used to stop pulling incorrectly.
My dog's have never learnt to pull on the lead, because right from my first dog, when I was a young child, they were taught to walk with me off lead, in a safe area, even my adult rescues learnt this way, weeks before they were walked on a lead. Shepherds use this with their dogs from puppies, before they are shown sheep. They follow the Shepherd naturally & when older they follow the Shepherd for the reward of working the sheep. I've trained loads of dogs of all different breeds & types this way successfully(including some very silly Afghans, who belonged to friends)
The OP needs the help of a force free trainer for some 1-2-1 help

 

[excuseme]

Actually, not all dogs have the need to pull and many naturally walk with a slack lead.
I do not very often see a dog with a harness on actually walking at heel, they mostly continue to walk in front and take the lead. I'm sure there are some that as with the collars walk naturally at heel/beside their owner.
I feel so sorry for the dogs that I see with loads of harness and contraptions attached all over them. The owners have their hands so full of different straps it must be very unpleasant to attempt walking the dog.

You have mentioned that a Halti is not a training aid.
A collar, harness or Halti are all training / walking aids.
I can understand how people feel that a collar is sometimes too harsh when a dog lunges or consistently pulls.
I will never understand why people use a harness to attempt stopping the pulling.
In my experience with the "Halti", it has been very effective, If the dog should lunge at another the head is automatically turned sideways and away, the forward power is greatly reduced and if used and fitted correctly with the lead on the correct side is very gentle.
This is my experience and my suggestion and I do not expect to be told, "if you bothered to read the post fully", I find this very rude.

 

[CoCo2014]

How many dogs have you trained & how many owners have you trained ?

If you remove a walking aid like a halti, you lose the control it gives you, therefore it is not a training aid. Also if the dog lunged there is a serious risk of hurting the dogs neck.

No dog naturally walks on a loose leash with no training at all, they certainly do not walk in the heel position without training.

The key to not having a pulling dog on the leash is not rocket science, it's called training. The same thing with ignoring other dogs & focusing on their owner. Patient force free training results in a well behaved dog.

 

[Robins mum]

Is there an enclosed paddock somewhere that you can hire we have 2 nearby us in north manchester they charge £5 for 20 mins and there are hurdles etc a 15' fence lets them run off all that energy and provides a safe space to exercise. I have joined a friend at one to try to help socialise her dog. The dog sounds much like yours he's a rehomed Spanish hunting dog and I see what you're up against. My friend has persisted with him and she has found someone who is local and knows a lot about this type of dog and has handled him on walks. Would there be someone with this specialist knowledge near you. Or contact Battersey Dogs Home may help you retrain him or have ideas. You have obviously worked really hard to change these unwanted behviours and I sense your passion for this dog. Getting the right help might make it achievable. Would blinkers help restrict field of vision? There must be experts out there somewhere. I would start with Battersey Dogs Home. Wishing you all the best.

Michelle, thank you for your comments and the time to respond to me, very grateful and apologise about delay in responding!

I have tried various dog trainers and behaviourists, read a few books, posted and posted on here and listened to the very educated and experienced gang here!

The last dog trainer I had contact with here did the usual chat and I just blew it out of the window after a couple of interactions - anyone who is stupid enough to suggest I tie him to my waist wants shooting IMHO!

I have found that if I can get someone to hold one of the leads and I hold the slip lead (to make sure he does not get physically damaged!) that works a treat! Downside is that I cannot get anyone to do it regularly for a few weeks to get him into a different pattern! It is also sadly surprising how many people still think aversive control is alright! WHAT is WRONG with people! Grrrr.

I have to be honest that I do not expect any joy from Battersby, and hear of many dogs they are unable to resolve issues with by their often old fashioned ways, and just have them put down! I feel the same way about the RSPCA I will, however, pick up the phone next week and ask them if they have any sensible suggestions. Thanks!

J.