Help.

[Shannandbell]

My border collie pup is 6 months old, has a clean bill of health and eats 'James wellbeloved kibble, she gets two 15 minute walks a day with 2 other in and out walks in case she needs the toilet. She is very high in energy and plays for 30minutes maybe even more almost all day. She's only taking about 2 naps during the day and they only last about 40 minutes. My problem is, for several months despite all the training. She can be very nasty, she will nip at you constantly and most of the time out of no where. This continues throughout the whole day constantly. My arms are bruised and scratched and sometimes she even manages to go for the face. We have 2 other dogs that she plays with. I've tried everything. She went to two puppy classes and constantly gets socialised with dogs and people. When we are telling her no she will have a temper and growl and bark and nip. She can be really scary and overwhelming. I'm worried for her future as an adult dog and I'm at the end of my wits, I'm only 18 and she is my first ever dog and the experience isn't how I imagined. She' very happy with other people In the house and behaves most of the time for them. I'm worried she just doesn' like me or has no bond towards me. I'm just running out of options. Does anyone have any other advice or has experienced this? I'm running low on patients. I have attahed a photo of her.

 

[Ruth_F]

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. At 6 months she is still teething, and that could be part of it. You could get a puppy/dog book and keep up with the puppy training classes? Knowledge is power.
Also she is a Collie. They nip what they are trying to herd - is she trying to herd you? They are also REALLY clever, get bored easily and then do things you would rather they didnt (which is why I dont have Collies). You could try taking her to agility / flyball / doing healwork to music / anything that will mentally stimulate her. She might sleep more if she has that mental stimulation.
Also remember positive positive positive. Ignore the 'bad' stuff and reward the 'good' stuff, dont force her to do anything she doesnt want to, bribing with treats and affection works much better . Dont beat yourself up too much either - it does get better and puppies are hard work but get it right now and you will have a lovely dog for years to come.
Would be interested to see how you get on.

 

[Shannandbell]

Thank you for your advice. We already have a border collie adult and a cross breed who are fantastic dogs, trained so well and are the sweetest, I've never experienced anything like this and I've had dogs all my life that's why im concerned and every dog has their own personality but we had no reason to assume shed but much different. Everything good that I see gets rewards and treats. She sits when she wants me to play and sits when I'm about to feed her. She is crate trained and it usually goes very good without any problems. She has activity toys and kongs that she gets almost every day. I havent seen signs of her herding me or anyone else but i have read that she might be trying to rule the house but standing my ground just isnt phasing her. I want the best for her and i feel like im Treding on shells constantly having to remind her. She has almost every adult tooth in as far as i can tell and I've even collected 8 milk teeth. I cannot think of anythint im doing wrong as this stage cuddling her is difficult because most of the day she acts this way. I will be investing in more training classes fairly soon, I will keep everyone updated with this in a month or two thank you for your advice.

 

[Whippylove]

Hi beautiful border you have x
I had a border for 13yrs and he went through exactly the same thing your pup is doing. He would nip my arms and my ankles and boy did it hurt!
When Zak started to nip i would put him on to his lead and tie it around my waist, didn't speak to him just carried on what i had to do and he had no option but to follow me also making you the leader . When he settled i would let him off and praise.
Collies need a lot of mental stimulation. My boy loved hide and seek with a toy he loved. Remember your doing nothing wrong hes just a hyperactive baby lol
You'll both get there in the end.

 

[JoanneF]

Puppies nip. It's not to do with trying to be leader (that theory has been disproved and discredited and is no longer referred to by trainers with up to date knowledge) it's just how she would have played with her siblings so she is likely continuing the practice with you. By you scolding, she may think it's part of the game - raised voice, movement etc. She needs to learn that humans play differently from puppies, it is referred to as bite inhibition. In other words, not to use her mouth on skin for play. There are two things that people usually find effective; either stick a toy in her mouth so she has that between her teeth instead of your arm or - and I think you might find this more helpful - withdraw your engagement. Dogs find any contact, even a row, as attention so if you give her zero attention she will notice it immediately. But I would go a step further than what whippylove suggests; rather than ignoring her I would walk straight out of the room for 10 seconds. You might need to play around with the length of time. But she will learn that teeth on skin = end of play. She is smart, it probably won't take long. You might want to restrict how much she plays with the other dogs too though, if she is excited and hyped up she will be harder to work with.

 

[JudyN]

I had this with my lurcher, though he would jump up and mouthe my arms on walks. I couldn't wear short sleeves, because my arms were a mess! I second JoanneF's suggestion of timeouts for around 10 seconds. You might find you spend a few days constantly putting her in timeout, letting her out again, and putting her straight back in. Also be prepared for an 'extinction burst' - when she realises that nipping isn't getting the reaction she wanted, she'll start off by trying harder. But eventually - and possibly quite quickly as she has a collie brain - she'll go to nip, and then think twice... The first time she hesitates she might still sucumb to temptation, but it's a start and if you're really consistent, it will get better.

Also work on inhibition control, because as well as the dog knowing what you want her to do, she has to have the self-control to do it. Have a look on Youtube for a video called It's Yer Choice, which will show you how to teach it.

My dog would have tantrums too. Any form of confrontation can cause real problems, and it's really important to try to avoid it. This doesn't mean you let her get her way, but that you control things so it doesn't arise, and you train her so she does what you want happily - e.g. rather than taking things she shouldn't have off her you train a 'leave' that makes her actually to want to give you what she has because she gets such a good reward.

She has the most beautiful, mesmerising eyes

 

[arealhuman]

I don't have enough experience to offer anything, but you can see you're getting some great advice from here. Welcome to the forum, and what a great looking pup

 

[Josie]

I was just about to say the same @arealhuman

Wow what great members we have and what great detailed information given. Thanks all!

 

[JoanneF]

Also be prepared for an 'extinction burst' - when she realises that nipping isn't getting the reaction she wanted, she'll start off by trying harder

Yes, good catch @JudyN

 

[Shannandbell]

Puppies nip. It's not to do with trying to be leader (that theory has been disproved and discredited and is no longer referred to by trainers with up to date knowledge) it's just how she would have played with her siblings so she is likely continuing the practice with you. By you scolding, she may think it's part of the game - raised voice, movement etc. She needs to learn that humans play differently from puppies, it is referred to as bite inhibition. In other words, not to use her mouth on skin for play. There are two things that people usually find effective; either stick a toy in her mouth so she has that between her teeth instead of your arm or - and I think you might find this more helpful - withdraw your engagement. Dogs find any contact, even a row, as attention so if you give her zero attention she will notice it immediately. But I would go a step further than what whippylove suggests; rather than ignoring her I would walk straight out of the room for 10 seconds. You might need to play around with the length of time. But she will learn that teeth on skin = end of play. She is smart, it probably won't take long. You might want to restrict how much she plays with the other dogs too though, if she is excited and hyped up she will be harder to work with.

I have tried numerous amounts of times to give her a toy instead, she only gets to play with the other dogs for maybe 30 mins or so. They are both older dogs now and can't play for huge amounts of time. I will keep on trying to remove myself from the situation when she bites. Thank you for the advice

 

[Caro Perry]

She sounds like she is bursting with energy.

When you walk her is it 15 minutes on lead or does she get to run around at high speed. My own 7 month pup gets 60-90 minutes off lead walking each day as well as play and training. It's rather more than than the internet based recommendations of 5 minutes per month twice a day but my vet is cool with it. He's an absolute horror otherwise- always up to something. He's trying to dig a hole in my rug as I'm typing this as he hasn't been out yet...

 

[JoanneF]

The five minute rule is really just for on lead, fixed pace walking - playing and zoomies are allowed on top of that! Don't forget the very good point Judy made about extinction burst though. But if you and everyone else in the family are consistent with the immediate time out she will catch on quickly.

 

[Shannandbell]

She sounds like she is bursting with energy.

When you walk her is it 15 minutes on lead or does she get to run around at high speed. My own 7 month pup gets 60-90 minutes off lead walking each day as well as play and training. It's rather more than than the internet based recommendations of 5 minutes per month twice a day but my vet is cool with it. He's an absolute horror otherwise- always up to something. He's trying to dig a hole in my rug as I'm typing this as he hasn't been out yet...

She used to get out for almost a hour running around in park with her football but we where told by our vet at vets4pets that this was too much. There's so much information circling I never know which ones correct. When she was walked for longer she would go to sleep soon as we got home but once up again it she was back to the same antics. We started working on bite inhabition today as suggested.

 

[JoanneF]

Have you also tried teaching her tricks and anything else that uses her brain? That tires dogs out even faster than physical exercise. Kikopup on YouTube might give you some ideas.

 

[Shannandbell]

Have you also tried teaching her tricks and anything else that uses her brain? That tires dogs out even faster than physical exercise. Kikopup on YouTube might

Thank you I will research that. She knows how to sit; stay, paw; down; roll and spin. She also knows "leave". I am looking to train her a lot more tricks and have started playing hide and seek with her favourite piggy toy

 

[JudyN]

To be honest, that's not a huge repertiore of 'tricks' for such an intelligent breed. There's a long list of tricks here The Ultimate List Of Dog Trick Ideas I think you have to buy the book to get instructions, but you could probably find instructions elsewhere on the internet.

Have you thought about clicker training? As well as using the clicker to reinforce a skill, you could use it for freeshaping: Clicker Training Free Shaping will unfold your dog's learning abilities! It's fun, and will really get her brain working. Just make sure you follow it carefully though - I tried it with my dog and now, whenever he sees the clicker, he just barks at me, or twitches a paw, and insists that he should get a reward...

 

[Shannandbell]

To be honest, that's not a huge repertiore of 'tricks' for such an intelligent breed. There's a long list of tricks here The Ultimate List Of Dog Trick Ideas I think you have to buy the book to get instructions, but you could probably find instructions elsewhere on the internet.

Have you thought about clicker training? As well as using the clicker to reinforce a skill, you could use it for freeshaping: Clicker Training Free Shaping will unfold your dog's learning abilities! It's fun, and will really get her brain working. Just make sure you follow it carefully though - I tried it with my dog and now, whenever he sees the clicker, he just barks at me, or twitches a paw, and insists that he should get a reward...

Thank you I will look in to it. I am aware that she is intelligent and I have also stated bellow the tricks she knows that I'm invested and trying to learn her more tricks and training. I am very grateful for the advice of everybody but in reason i was looking for the answer to that one issue. Her training is on a basis that I can manage as I'm currently studying for important college exams. Im however taking everyone's advice on board and can only do one step at a time. I've got a few books on training her breed and I've also contacted a man with 4 beautiful border collies to see if he would be off help. She has a clicker but I haven't used it just yet. Again thank you and I will invest on buying the book

 

[Maggie Mul]

We also have a puppy (4 months) who is doing exactly the same thing. You are not alone!! I also know how hard it is when they behave like this. My hands and ankles are also quite a mess and despite living in Saudi, I now wear jeans around the house as her biting is painful!!! I understand how you feel when it is constant and feels as though it comes out of know where. I have watched quite a few kikopup videos on line and have found those helpful. There is one about a positive interrupter and some good advice about how to calm and settle your puppy. Also one about how to react when they bite. At first, my puppy refused to let go of my ankles and jeans and was not interested in any toy. It takes time, patience and perseverance, but now when she attaches herself, I either stay as still as I can and try not to move and totally ignore her. She often will let go by herself. If she is really reluctant to let go I try and distract her with a toy, this doesn't always work either, so I bend down, pick her up and put her behind the stair gate for a few minutes, so she is separated from us. Admittedly, she often comes straight back and it starts all over again, but after a few times of being apart from us, she seems to get the message. Watch some of the kikopups videos, I really learnt a lot from them.

 

[Ruth_F]

Hi again @Shannandbell. I have reread your post to try to be more specific.
All the suggestions on here are aimed at replacing the unwanted behaviour with something more acceptable and to try to reduce her energy levels in the house.

Specifically for the biting: whenever she bites you could (as quickly as possible) give her a rope toy to bite instead, and praise her when she bites at that and not you. Carry them about with you so you have them as needed. She needs to learn you are not a chew toy. Personally I find squeaky toys can make the dog even more excited.
I would double her walks to 2 30 minute walks a day, she is very active and is bouncing off the walls. You could try changing her diet - Wellbeloved is good stuff but there might be something in it making her a bit hyperactive, the vet will be able to advise.
Also she is a willfull, stroppy teenager

We have all had the 'oh my god what have I done' feelings with our first dog. It took a year for me to like my first dog. He was a rescue Lab who destroyed my garden, barked at every dog in the park, chewed my daughter's toys, knocked people flying when they visited and stole more food than I care to remember. It got a lot easier when he was 2 and thinking back we should have trained him more, I think he was bored. He became a truly lovely dog.