Help advice needed about girl in heat

[Michelle monroe]

My girl Millie, in currently in heat. She’s past the bleeding stage but it’s driving one of my dogs wappy.
Cubley and Millie have previously had a litter together and this is her first season since she had the pups. We have 2 other dogs who have been neutered and one of Millie’s pups, a girl, who will also be neutered in the next few weeks when she’s just past 6 months, which is what the vet advised.
We kept Millie and Cubley intact, so to speak, as we were planning on another litter but obviously didn’t want this to happen only 6 months after the last one. The other 2 dogs are showing some interest but stop when told to, however it is driving Cubley mad, most likely as they’ve mated before. We’re keeping them completely separate but obviously Cubley can still smell her. We’re taking the boys out on extra walks to give Cubley a rest from constantly trying to get to Millie. He’s usually very placid and calm so I hate seeing him so distressed, unable to settle and constantly crying for Millie. I understand that’s just nature but I find it very difficult to see my boy getting himself in such a state. We’re undecided now whether to get Millie neutered or have her next and final litter using a breeder. We were going to use Cubley again but have decided against it and he’s being neutered tomorrow. All the dogs we’ve ever had have been neutered as I believe the long term health benefits are better. I know a lot of people think differently, but that’s just my personal opinion. What I need help with is advice on how Cubley will behave once he’s had his op as I know they still have hormones for a few weeks afterwards. But will he still be trying to get to her and as distressed as he is now or will his interest subside? He’s going to be tired and sore for a few days but will he still be trying to get to her once he’s feeling better? Millie’s bleeding stopped about 3 days ago so how much longer will she be in heat for? I’ll still be keeping them apart while she’s in heat but I don’t want Cubley hurting himself trying to get to her. I don’t really understand female heat durations and when they’re at their most potent to dogs. I’d just like to know what to expect so I can preempt any problems. Any thoughts, ideas or advice would be very helpful

 

[JoanneF]

I don't know a massive amount about breeding but I do know that not only will Cubley still have his hormonal drive for a period after neutering; he will also remain fertile for about a month so could impregnate your female. Clearly just six months after her last litter, this is far too soon. Can you board him somewhere for a while? In the same house, he will be driving himself to distraction, poor lad, and unless you can absolutely guarantee their separation he will mate her. Her season would normally last about 3 weeks but you probably need to leave a margin for safety.

 

[JudyN]

Something else to consider is that even unneutered males can tie with females, and do themselves an injury in the process. I don't know whether this is more likely to apply to Cubley, as he might remember what he did before even if he can't remember exactly why...

You can buy 'bitch spray' which is supposed to mask the scent of a bitch in season. Maybe worth a try?

 

[Michelle monroe]

Thank you, I didn’t know he’d still be fertile as well. We can keep them totally separate but it’s just very unpleasant for him. Poor little thing. I knew neutered males could still tie but I didn’t know it could hurt them. At the moment we’re keeping Millie separate from all the boys not just Cubley. Fortunately Millie loves her cage and treats it like a teenagers bedroom! We’ve made it very fluffy and comfy as are the boys. They’re all having extra and longer walks to get them out the house. But Millie always wants to go straight back into her bedroom. So we’re having time with the 2 girls and time with the boys so our world is revolving around dogs and we seem to be constantly walking! There isn’t anywhere we can take Cubley unfortunately and I’m not putting him in kennels after he’s just had his operation. As he’ll still be hormonal after being neutered, is he going to still be this desperate to get to her or will it abate even slightly? If he’s still going to be as wound up to the extent as he is now, I’m going to have to seriously consider going to stay somewhere else with him. Looks like me and Cubley are going on holiday!!!!!

 

[Michelle monroe]

Does this frenzy to get to a female in heat cause the dog any physical harm? Obviously he’s distressed but can it make him ill in any way?

 

[JoanneF]

As I understand it, you are going on holiday!

 

[JoanneF]

Does this frenzy to get to a female in heat cause the dog any physical harm? Obviously he’s distressed but can it make him ill in any way?

He could do himself physical harm through trying to get to her - banging doors to open them, leaping barriers, chewing through doors etc. Psychologically he will be massively stressed though. You may be aware mating can change their personality.

 

[Michelle monroe]

No I’m not going on holiday I just don’t know what to do. I had no idea mating can change their personality. In what way? I can’t stand seeing him so upset. He’s not being aggressive in anyway but hyper anxious and keeps panting a lot. I’m just pleased he’s going to the vets tomorrow so they can keep an eye on him. I know dogs can have diazepam but can they have human diazepam? I wouldn’t give it to him today because he’s having anaesthetic tomorrow then painkillers for a few days but I just wondered in case this goes on for weeks. I have 5mg diazepam tablets but he’s a shih tzu so not a big dog. That’s why he’s panting so much because of his little snubby nose. I’ve just run out of ideas of how to calm him down

 

[JudyN]

Drugs can have very different effects in different species so don't even think about giving him diazepam. Tomorrow you can discuss his anxiety with your vet who may be able to suggest something.

He might feed off your own anxiety so to try to keep calm - he'll get through this!

 

[JoanneF]

As I understand it, the behaviour changes are often around obsession with finding females and in some cases aggression to other males.

 

[Josie]

Do you have anyone you can trust to care for him until your female is out of season?

Maybe if he is away from her and the situation he might calm down?

 

[leashedForLife]

Does this frenzy to get to a female in heat, cause [a male] dog any physical harm?
Obviously he’s distressed, but can it make him ill in any way?

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it can make him go off his food, or he may wake in the middle of the night to whine, howl, or bark... which will mostly affect the other household-members, as he can nap at some time, the next day, while humans may have a work-schedule that precludes naps!

Aside from being a whinging PITA & not having much appetite, it won't make him "ill", per se - it will assuredly make Y'ALL humans cranky, LOL, listening to him whimper & scratch & pace & fling himself down & groan, & get up to pace, & whine & then howl, & make ultrasonic bat-call whines of desperation, & jump on the door-panel, & bark...

U have at least a fortnight remaining, & if i were U, i'd ask a family member or friend if they'd take him for the next 2-weeks? - the worst they can say is 'no'.
Even after she's out of estrus, he's going to be fertile for approx a month, & while his DESIRE will be reduced quickly, so that he won't be yearning over every estrous-F within a 2-mile radius, his INSTINCT to mount & hump a F will still be there.
Mounting & mating are learned behaviors, so he's learned it - & obviously it's a rewarding activity, he'd like to do it again. . So he'll need to be watched around Fs, whether estrous or not, as he might be tempted to try it on with Fs who are not "in an interesting hormonal state", & some of them might rearrange his pretty face.

Some ex-sires are no longer intrigued, after a few months post-desex, & won't mess with Fs or harass them any more, so long as they're not in actual estrus; others remember their former days of glory, & will mount + hump at any opp, till the day they die. :shrug:
Hopefully, Ur fella is one of the easygoing ones who will be happy to hang-out with [non-estrous] Fs & not bug them, once his testes are gone & he's finally firing blanks. :thumb-up:

BTW, just in case:
UTIs can cause dogs of either sex & any reproductive state to SMELL like Fs in estrus; if yer dog, or anyone else's dog, is suddenly the target of lots of mounting & humping, get a urine-specimen cultured by the vet to confirm that there's no nasty microbes, & to positively-ID any evil bacteria... so that they can Rx an antibiotic that the critters are susceptible to, & kill'em, vs throw some generic-AB at it, & only succeed in hardening the G**-blessed thing!


- terry

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