Height!

[dawn]

a little stray from the topic..
how come certain breeds get messured? like miniture bull terriers, min poodles and toy poodles etc?

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Throw in beagles from USA. They are different heights from a common breed. EG. Mini Bull terriers & bull terriers.

Dont know if right but sounds good :- "

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does sound good :thumbsup:

arn't ours basicaly mini greyhounds :- "

:angry: bad becky, don't stir :angry: slappy wrist

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You can come out from under the table now Becky but keep the tin hat on just in case!!!! (w00t) :thumbsup:

 

[artemis]

Im not even  going to comment about this thread  (w00t)   been there ,done that, (w00t)   (w00t)   (w00t)   a THOUSAND TIMES (w00t)   (w00t)   (w00t)

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If you dont want to comment then dont! Just asking for advice. Some members may not have been around as long as others. Does not mean that their questions are any less important to them. Thought this was meant to be a "friendly community"

 

[aslan]

Artemis - Jax didn't mean to be offensive to you, her comment was really directed to everybody who has also been part of this argument "a thousand times". It is the ONLY drawback of being a long term member of this board. Please do a search you will find lengthy and sometimes quite heated discussions on the topic of height. We don't want to put you off, we are friendly, it's just that we have discussed this topic a lot.

I will just try and break it down to a minimum for you ...

Facts:

1. There are maximum and minimum heights for whippet dogs and bitches written in the standard.

2. It does not say these heights are only "desirable". (Not in the Australian Standard anyway which I believe is taken from the English).

3. It does say "any departure from the foregoing points is to be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in direct proportion to its degree".

4. It also says under 'General Appearance' - "all forms of exaggeration should be avoided".

And the fact is that everybody reads into that what they will. )

 

[dessie]

Thanks for your reply!
So does that mean that over height standard IS marked as a fault?

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All breed standards are intended as a guide only. It is down to the judge to interpret that standard and apply to the dogs as they see fit. We do not have disqualifying faults in this country and what may be important to one judge is not necessarily as important to another.

You should look at the dog as an overall package of conformation and movement and not just on one point alone.

 

[Whippetman]

a little stray from the topic..
how come certain breeds get messured? like miniture bull terriers, min poodles and toy poodles etc?

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The answer is in the name of the breed (s) otherwise you would have a toy poodle possibly being the same height as a miniature poodle , the weights and heights for the different breeds are set to clearly define which sub section of a breed you are judging., this is the reason we dont have this in whippets and we just have a desirable height and the whippet should be judged as a whole and be able to do the job it was bred for )

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If that is correct in saying it is in the name of the breed then why do they measure German shepperds (euopean variety) and they have a hight restiction

 

[Cartman]

Im not even  going to comment about this thread  (w00t)   been there ,done that, (w00t)   (w00t)   (w00t)   a THOUSAND TIMES (w00t)   (w00t)   (w00t)

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I dont mind talking on "this" subject. I do steer clear of colour & show/racing.

 

[dessie]

If that is correct in saying it is in the name of the breed then why do they measure German shepperds (euopean variety) and they have a hight restiction

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Since when??? And please could you enlighten us as to what a German Shepherd (European variety) is??? Never heard of the breed.

 

[artemis]

Thank you all. Now doing a search! )

 

[oxana]

a little stray from the topic..
how come certain breeds get messured? like miniture bull terriers, min poodles and toy poodles etc?

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The answer is in the name of the breed (s) otherwise you would have a toy poodle possibly being the same height as a miniature poodle , the weights and heights for the different breeds are set to clearly define which sub section of a breed you are judging., this is the reason we dont have this in whippets and we just have a desirable height and the whippet should be judged as a whole and be able to do the job it was bred for )

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If that is correct in saying it is in the name of the breed then why do they measure German shepperds (euopean variety) and they have a hight restiction

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I`m obviously a liitle bit dim as i wasn`t aware that the German Shepherd (European variety) had Sub Sections within the breed otherwise surely you would have a Miniature AND Standard variety and if the heights (minimum and maximum) are set and NOT desirable then obviously height could be more of an issue, BUT as the original question was regarding the Whippet Standard the keyword here is DESIRABLE height .

 

[playawhile]

a little stray from the topic..
how come certain breeds get messured? like miniture bull terriers, min poodles and toy poodles etc?

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The answer is in the name of the breed (s) otherwise you would have a toy poodle possibly being the same height as a miniature poodle , the weights and heights for the different breeds are set to clearly define which sub section of a breed you are judging., this is the reason we dont have this in whippets and we just have a desirable height and the whippet should be judged as a whole and be able to do the job it was bred for )

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If that is correct in saying it is in the name of the breed then why do they measure German shepperds (euopean variety) and they have a hight restiction

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Hi!

According to the German standard (the "correct" one I think) height in german shepperds should be: 55-60 cm for bitches an 60-65 cm for dogs and there are no disqualifications in the standard for being to big or to small but it says that all faults should be measured according to its degree of deviation (don't know if this is the correct word to use???)

Henrik Härling

 

[Morgan]

Well for me the problem is rather different. The regulations in France being very strict sizewise :wacko:

In France there is something called confirmation. In fact puppies born with Pedigree registered parents and registered litters don't have a true Pedigree but a Certificate of Birth (Certificat de Naissance) which is a kind of "temporary" pedigree (except for the exported dogs for which we have Exports Pedigrees). To obtain the Definite Pedigree the whippet (in our case) must be presented to a judge at the age of minimum 12 months. If the dog or the bitch is bigger or smaller than the required size or if the dog has a very bad fault it will be refused to Confirmation so it should never receive the Pedigree so in this case won't be used in breeding and even not participate in official racing or Lure Coursing competitions.

The maximum height allowed for a whippet dog is 53 cm and 49 for a bitch. So if the whippet turns out to be bigger you can forget everything about him in France concerning conformation breeding and competition.

I believe that the problem is that size isn't really a fixed point in the breed. If someone uses for example two perfectly sized whippets there is No Way to be absolutly sure you'll have perfect sizes in their progeny. Well I believe so but if someone can tell me more I'll very interested...

I believe 95% of the top winnings French Dogs are perfectly sized which is a good point OK but the problem is that considering the size so important has 2 sides: OK the size is maybe more controlled then in other countries but the dark side is that some judges and some breeders are taking it so serious that they forget the rest. :wacko:

What really represent 0,5 cm too high if the rest of the dog is really stunning??? There has been some judges which you really thought looking at their judgings that really size was getting too important: if it's small (good sized) it's good, if it's big it's bad. Things can be as simple as that. It's more a question of personnal discipline I think.

On the other hand we have to face the truth, whippets are getting bigger a bit everywhere. Sometimes good sized whippets can look small when they are not at all, just being correct in size. A good sized bitch of 46 cm for example looks rather small to most of the whippet people while in fact she is not, the desirable height being originally from 44 to 47 cm and then the good sized can be penalized versus the bigger ones being qualified too smallish :blink:

I have a good example of that. When my dog "Mojo" Multi Ch. Taraly Stairway to Heaven went to Finland one week later he was entered to his first show. Ok he won the qualifying CC at first try, became best dog and at the end BOS but what was rather asthonising was the judge's critic: he said Mojo was limit of being too small :wacko: .... Mojo has been officially measured several times and his size is 50 cm so he fits perfectly Standard requirements, it is just that he looks small compared to bigger dogs. And to really understand how obvious this was here are some pictures taken of Mojo in Finnish rings (pictures taken in best dog competition). I think the pictures talk for themselves :- "

{photos removed at the request of the original poster}

So at the end where is the correct position? In other countries where all dogs even really big ones (eg a dog sized 55 cm) can become champion and then being used at stud or in France where the sized can influence all the future of a dog??? :unsure:

I do personnaly believe that size is a point of the standard like the others so that is really up to the breeders to do their own selections according to all the different points of the standard or at least his own interpretation of it but also the judges maybe should be more aware about the breed they judge... Because when you hear a judge saying this dog is terrible just because he is slightly too big or when a judge says a dog perfectly standard is too small because being in fact just too used to big whippets... Well both should study more about whippets :- "

 

[Seraphina]

Very well said Tamara. I feel that we are only the guardians of this breed; we do not have the right to change the size as drastically as it has been happening. Thankfully there are people who try to maintain the size as a part of the overall breed type. :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Link to one of the discussions which involved minly size;

standard changes

 

[artemis]

Helllo All!

I would like thank you all for your experienced comments and advice regarding my query on the "height" word! As you may be aware I am not an experienced Whippy "exibitor" but want to do the best I can in the show ring! My parti colour bitch (eighteen months) has done reasonably well at companion and open shows and I have had loads of fun with her. The judges comments usually include " could do with a bit more weight" She has a physique Lynford Christie would be proud of and I am pleased to say that she is allowed to run and be a "whippy". I only want the best for my dogs ( two terriers/ two whippy,s) and try my best to ensure this. My new puppy I think will acheive the height standard but may not conform in other conformational points and movement! Who knows, she is only 11 weeks old! But I will still love and adore her as I do the others! If I strive for perfection I would not be any happier than when I am with my crew!

 

[JAX]

Helllo All!
I would like thank you all for your experienced comments and advice regarding my query on the "height" word!  As you may be aware I am not an experienced Whippy "exibitor" but want to do the best I can in the show ring!  My parti colour bitch (eighteen months) has done reasonably well at companion and open shows and I have had loads of fun with her.  The judges comments usually include " could do with a bit more weight"  She has a physique Lynford Christie would be proud of and I am pleased to say that she is allowed to run and be a "whippy".  I only want the best for my dogs ( two terriers/ two whippy,s) and try my best to ensure this. My new puppy I think will acheive the height standard but may not conform in other conformational points and movement!  Who knows, she is only 11 weeks old! But I will still love and adore her as I do the others! If I strive for perfection I would not be any happier than when I am with my crew!

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Me too . :wub: I couldnt love mine more than I do ,warts and all :lol:

 

[dessie]

warts and all    :lol:

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I think I would have those surgically removed!!! :lol:

 

[Seraphina]

  The judges comments usually include " could do with a bit more weight"  She has a physique Lynford Christie would be proud of and I am pleased to say that she is allowed to run and be a "whippy".

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I like my youngsters to be on the slim side, I find that they put on weight as they mature somewhere between 2-3. :luck:

 

[JAX]

You want a whippet to be in hard condition , but not `overloaded `in the shoulder , which can come from too much running . :cheers: