Heart Problems

[chelynnah]

most whippets are clear from any problems

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And on what do you base this statement? Yes, the majority of people (myself included) feel that overall whippets are generally healthy, but we're talking about finally putting our money where our mouth is and proving that. You can only say with certainty that 'most whippets are clear' if we have the test results to prove that. To my knowledge we don't - we're only just starting to talk about doing them.... If we want whippets to stay healthy then we need to take advantage of what's out there and start doing the tests that will help us make educated breeding decisions in the future in order to maintain health and to avoid some of the problems that may be out there, but not common enough for us to know about yet.

There's a serious danger in being too complacent. No one's yelling 'FIRE', but no one should be too complacent either.

Wendy

 

[Sagoruna]

I think this is a very interesting topic. I am a lucky owner of whippets and do not intend to breed so my highest wish is to have whippets that are sound, mentally stabile and that are healthy enough to live with me for many many years. I think it would be a lot easier if the breeders around the world of this magnificent breed could be open about problems. As it is right now if you are open about problems the talk will start and it will be hard to continue breeding.

As my proffession I am a veterinarian but only work with cows. Bulls get breeding indexes with a health parameter (mastitis resistance, fertility, calfingproblems, fottproblems and so on).

It's not even possible to breed for healthier dogs when we know nothing about the healt of potential dogs/bitches. I have put to sleep a few whippets due to autoimmune disorders and also mental problems, and a few is too much since I dont even work with dogs every day. A lot of the whippets I know are fully fit and several of them are 10 years or older but I still know several with problems mostly allergies or autoimmune disorders and the owners/breeders doesn't talk about it openly because they would be treated as paria. This is a great shame.

I want to be able to buy a whippet in the future without beeing scared it will get an autoimmune disorder or other health problem. So please share your findings!

 

[Dotti]

I would just like to say to everybody .... you cannot blame anyone or any kennel for the problems that are now occuring .... We have all played our part ....
Even if you don't breed , how many times have you wanted a puppy of a certain colour or from a particular dog or bitch ...

We are all responsible and therfore we all have a responsability to make changes...

Don't throw stones !!!! Work together and try to eradicte the problems , we do , after all want the same thing ... ??

Healthy , Happy Whippets that will be lying on our Sofa's for many years to come ...

Libby

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Don't be ridiculous,

No one is blaming anyone for deliberately doing a fatal mating. The dogs breeding was mentioned, as it should be. For someone to have the guts and say the dogs breeding (and many fluff talkers on these forums don't do that) is a step forward in awareness.

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I Have in no way said that ....

I was the one who 'Posted' the breeding of the bitch in question , on behalf of the 'Breeder'....

Please re-read this and my previous post ...

DEFINATLEY NO FLUFF INCLUDED !! :rant:

 

[Seraphina]

Thanks Griff for all the info; that explains perfectly while ordinary vet is not always able to pick up a problem and specialist is needed to get correct diagnoses.

From my experience cardiomyopathy occurs here and there, just one dog with siblings and close relatives not affected. My Seraphina came from last litter of a bitch who all together produced about 30 pups (3 litters), her sire was also widely used, and all of her half siblings lived to normal Borzoi age.

To remove from breeding programs large number of dogs related to the affected one would only result in reducing genetic diversity of the breed.

I am NOT saying that these problems are caused by lack of diversity. But line breeding dogs from lines carrying a problem is more likely to produce pups with that problem.

Pagan's and her sibling's case is puzzling precisely because they are sired by two different sires. Rose, the dam and the place the pups were born are the only connection, which makes me wonder about the possibility of some environmental factor.

 

[parnew]

Thanks Griff for all the info; that explains perfectly while ordinary vet is not always able to pick up a problem and specialist is needed to get correct diagnoses. 
From my experience cardiomyopathy occurs here and there, just one dog with siblings and close relatives not affected.  My Seraphina came from last litter of a bitch who all together produced about 30 pups (3 litters), her sire was also widely used, and all of her  half siblings lived to normal Borzoi age. 

To remove from breeding programs  large number of dogs related to the affected one would only result in reducing genetic diversity of the breed.

I am NOT saying that these problems are caused by lack of diversity.  But line breeding dogs from lines carrying a problem is more likely to produce pups with that problem.

Pagan's and her sibling's case is puzzling precisely because they are sired by two different sires.  Rose, the dam and the place the pups were born are the only connection, which makes me wonder about the possibility of some environmental factor.

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In humans diet plays a huge role in heart problems and we all feed our young stock loads of high percentage fat foods to get them of to a very good start in life and then we have a active food for adult dogs. So is there a case for the diet to be looked at as well to see if the dogs have a high cholesterol which can also bring on problems later in life, does any one know of a whippet that has experenced this.

 

[Seraphina]

In humans diet plays a huge role in heart problems and we all feed our young stock loads of high percentage fat foods to get them of to a very good start in life and then we have a active food for adult dogs. So is there a case for the diet to be looked at as well

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That is a good point. I have been wondering how did domesticated dogs managed to survive for tens of thousands of years scavenging what fell of people's tables, and now we are told that they have to be fed this or that complete diet or their health will be compromised.

Of-course, what a pregnant bitch eats, or which chemicals she gets treated with. can also have impact on her pups. Then we need to consider the Melamine scandal. There is no reason to trust that melamine is the only dangerous substance that ends up in dog food, or for that matter in our food.

 

[GotWhippet?]

off topic a little

I could never understand why they made a complete food for overweight dogs. Why not just give them half of what they get from the regular food and no leftovers from the kitchen table.

I guess it's marketing at it's finest.

As for humans and overweight ( I shouldn't talk because I got the wobbly bit thing going on myself :- " ) well it is getting worse. I got the "nurses back" to prove it. We had a 29 yr old in for a cholecystectomy who had a BMI of 55. Just crazy. I'd say at any time where I work at least 60% of patients are obese (it's more than half anyway).

 

[Seraphina]

off topic a little
I could never understand why they made a complete food for overweight dogs. Why not just give them half of what they get from the regular food and no leftovers from the kitchen  table.

I guess it's marketing at it's finest.

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LOL, yes and anyway most overweight dogs are so because people feed them rubbish. I took back a puppy that went to live with people with two grossly overweight children. In no time the dog was also fat. The woman swore she only feeds her minuscule amounts of food - starvation rations for chihuahua. Maybe, but the kids were stuffing themselves on biscuits and ice creams and sharing with he dog. I was very concerned about her health and took her back, within couple of weeks eating as much as my other dogs she was back in shape.

 

[whipcat]

After reading all these things I am very surprised.

I have Whippets now for 20 years - okay not so long

I imported some of Roger stocks Courthill. my firt import was Courthill Crystal Ring - she died this year beeing 14 years old - no health problems all her life at all.

-Courthill Cafe Society, died with 11 1/2 - no problems at all since this time

8 years ago, I was because of another problem in the Vet Universety in Giessen, the did a study for heart testing and asked for some Whippets to be tested. I tested Piri (Whipcat Color of Night) and Courthill Crystal Ring - both had no problems.

At Home

Whipcat Fire Island at Courthill and Whipcat Faithful at Courthill

both are now 10 years and had never been at the vet, only for vaccinatons. Both are still running in the big garden.

Fire Island was tested for PRA 3 years ago - clear, Courthill Crimson Pirate also - clear of PRA.

In the last 16 years we had now 22 litters. In the litters we did not have a lot of dead puppies - maybe 6 or so. We had no cesarien in that time. From all this Puppies - when they get older 3 died poisening, 3 by caraccident, one died last year - we do not know why. All the others get old and died at normal ages.

Sure we had some problems with testikels (Who on earth have not?) But really that is all.

But okay, now it started to blame dogs and to give names, so I have now a date at the vetenary University in Giessen again.

I called them this morning, the next date is 29.01.2009

I will take Ludo and Oliver to get their heart tested - and than I will take two others. They allways only accept two at one date - so it will take time but I let you know.

Now all the others - who pointed at dogs and people and start this campaign can start to test their dogs as well -

I am not angry about it, but for me tit seems to destroy a breed which has really not much problems. We all are breeders which love them really and we really care about our dogs, I hate the idea to "produce" ill dogs. I woiúld never feel comfort to sell them in familys.

But okay, lets start!

Sorry for some mistakes, english is not my language - and in a theme like thsi its hard to find the right words for me, but I hope you understand:9

By Susanne & the Whipcats

now away to a Show - cross your fingers

 

[Eceni]

most whippets are clear from any problems

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​

And on what do you base this statement? Yes, the majority of people (myself included) feel that overall whippets are generally healthy, but we're talking about finally putting our money where our mouth is and proving that. You can only say with certainty that 'most whippets are clear' if we have the test results to prove that. To my knowledge we don't - we're only just starting to talk about doing them.... If we want whippets to stay healthy then we need to take advantage of what's out there and start doing the tests that will help us make educated breeding decisions in the future in order to maintain health and to avoid some of the problems that may be out there, but not common enough for us to know about yet.

There's a serious danger in being too complacent. No one's yelling 'FIRE', but no one should be too complacent either.

Wendy

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With the greatest of hesitation, and very quietly, and from behind a flame-proof barrier, might I suggest that the only way to have any idea of what's actually happening in the breed (any breed) is to set up a Health Database in which a central institution gathers information from breeders, lay owners (that is, average pet owners) and veterinary surgeons as to what diseases/disease profiles they may be seeing.

This would require a fairly sophisticated education program, not least for the vets so they have an idea of what's likely to turn up and so can begin to make educated assessments. I wouldn't have had a clue about the entire spectrum of auto-immune diseases if I hadn't emailed former colleagues to ask about them and I worked in a referral centre for a decade where we had specialists on hand all the time.

Such a thing would require courage, honesty, integrity, a willingness to act on the results and an absolute guarantee that there would be no blame-gaming and no witch hunts as a result. I'd like to think the KC could and would organise it but I'm not holding my breath on that one. The good thing about the paradigm shift that's happening, though, is that it's worldwide and can be supported by worldwide data sharing.

manda

 

[chelynnah]

most whippets are clear from any problems

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

And on what do you base this statement? Yes, the majority of people (myself included) feel that overall whippets are generally healthy, but we're talking about finally putting our money where our mouth is and proving that. You can only say with certainty that 'most whippets are clear' if we have the test results to prove that. To my knowledge we don't - we're only just starting to talk about doing them.... If we want whippets to stay healthy then we need to take advantage of what's out there and start doing the tests that will help us make educated breeding decisions in the future in order to maintain health and to avoid some of the problems that may be out there, but not common enough for us to know about yet.

There's a serious danger in being too complacent. No one's yelling 'FIRE', but no one should be too complacent either.

Wendy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

With the greatest of hesitation, and very quietly, and from behind a flame-proof barrier, might I suggest that the only way to have any idea of what's actually happening in the breed (any breed) is to set up a Health Database in which a central institution gathers information from breeders, lay owners (that is, average pet owners) and veterinary surgeons as to what diseases/disease profiles they may be seeing.

This would require a fairly sophisticated education program, not least for the vets so they have an idea of what's likely to turn up and so can begin to make educated assessments. I wouldn't have had a clue about the entire spectrum of auto-immune diseases if I hadn't emailed former colleagues to ask about them and I worked in a referral centre for a decade where we had specialists on hand all the time.

Such a thing would require courage, honesty, integrity, a willingness to act on the results and an absolute guarantee that there would be no blame-gaming and no witch hunts as a result. I'd like to think the KC could and would organise it but I'm not holding my breath on that one. The good thing about the paradigm shift that's happening, though, is that it's worldwide and can be supported by worldwide data sharing.

manda

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That's what we're pretty much talking about - and certainly to what I was saying in my post you quoted

Wendy