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Four/five month feeding schedule-too much poo-info alert...!

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bombolone

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What is your four/five month puppy feeding schedule? How does that tie in with poo-times (sorry to be graphic) - particularly at night? Do you walk in order to get puppy to poo? Finally, do you alter food quantities as part of schedule e.g. more food at morning meals?

My 4.5 month old puppy does not poo particularly regularly even though fed on a strict timetable! He also needs to poo in the night (although is learning to hold it thanks to crate). Is there a schedule that works best for puppies that need to poo in the night?

When younger there was so much night-pooing (much more than day) that we brought his last feed right back to 3.30. It did help but we are still having issues with night-poos! Or at least the need... As I see it there are two things we need to think about...

1) how to make sure he poos on last outing at night so can go longer at night - his last poo is usually between 6 and 8 and he does nothing at his 10.30 outing as he is sleepy and uncooperative

2) what is optimum feeding schedule? Logic 1, last feed early so plenty of time to eliminate before bed (that is the route we have been following). Logic 2, last feed late so it doesn't need to 'follow through' until later in the morning next day...

Generally (and it isn't fixed really) our puppy follows this schedule:

6 am poo (instant)

7 am breakfast

8-9 poo

10-11 walk and poo (usually diarrhoea - only when zooming around/on walks)

11.30 lunch

NOTHING BETWEEN LUNCH AND SUPPER

3.30 supper

6-8pm poo

8pm onwards - sleepy, no poo

(IF TAKEN ON WALK AROUND 9/10 there might be another poo but never if just in garden)

So we are being woken up anywhere between 4 and 6 am and now know (see other posts!) that this is because he needs a poo. What would you alter to make this a little later and/or less urgent?

One interesting thing is that our puppy is not ravenous at breakfast time. Really enjoys food but not barking to eat at 7. Can happily wait until 8 for breakfast, despite not having eaten since 3.30 the day before!

Sorry for poo detail. I can't help but think that people who have looked after lots of puppies must have some experience with this and what works best for most dogs. Like teachers knowing kids through exposure to volumes of kids, surely people who have looked after many puppies begin to recognise optimum patterns? Or perhaps something is glaringly obvious from what we are doing?

Any help/ advice / experience much appreciated.

Thank you!
 
I put a reply on your other thread about feeding but it also occurred to me you might want to use an alternative cue word for pooing so you can prompt him?
 
Yes I wondered about that too but we have been saying 'quick quick' for so long for both Number 1s and Number 2s I didn't want to confuse him!!
 
I use 'busy busy' for pooing. Sometimes, like before taking him in the car to a longer walk, I know he will only want a wee so I can prompt him with the word for that. I think two separate words are helpful, I don't think dogs associate the two toileting processes as one act / the same thing if that makes sense?
 
yes that makes absolute sense to me, thank you. Will retrain...
 
Have had several puppies and lots of rescues and never noticed a pattern in their pooing.

Current rescue is a nocturnal pooer :) . I think that Romanian dogs must be nocturnal creatures. It has taken me ages to house train him with his poos. One thing that I did find was that any kind of hard material like a bone or bull's pizzle would cause him to poo at night. Presumably it irritated his bowels. I also think that he may have been punished in a previous home and was being secretive with his poos in order to avoid humans and poos.

He also had Giardia as a puppy and I have heard that it can affect them in this way.
 
Hi gypsysmum2. I am rather disappointed that you have not seen a poo pattern! I thought I'd be able to work something out and therefore craft the schedule to my puppy's advantage for night poos!

Don't think any of your issues with your night pooer are common to mine! So can't be of any help spotting trends there either - very disappointing! Only thing that helped ages ago was moving supper time back to 3.30. Now I am going to try moving it the other way to make the dawn waking later. But they say that the poo is not related to the last meal - it's related to 2 or 3 meals previously! Very complex!!

I find going out in the garden at night a real nightmare. Our puppy doesn't just 'go'. He will wee, on cue but then he finds a piece of bark. Lies down and chews it for 10-15 mins however much you try to get him up or get his attention. He is fixated on the bark (and we have him on lead to try to stop this). He is tired and loves to chew the bark! Then he might amble over to the place he poos but he might not. It's excruciating... Can take 20mins. Not funny!!! After he goes and we come back in, he goes back to sleep so it is the toilet waking him up. I am hoping your suggestion about the clicker might clarify things for him, together with JoanneF's suggestion to change the cue. And I am going to up the treats to SUPER HIGH VALUE for poos only, until he has worked that one out...

Thank you for all your help and time.
 
If you want to try and track the passage of food, you could try putting a few kernels of sweetcorn in one of his meals.
 
I can imagine that could be quite fun!! (in a sad kind of way ;) !)
 
That's part of the joy of dog ownership - a ridiculously obsessive interest in poo!
 
That's such a good idea JoanneF. So simple yet wouldn't have occurred to me. In more than one puppy book that I read before our puppy came home all said that dogs will poo within 30 minutes of eating. I began to think we had a 'special' puppy with an extra long intestine because she did not follow this rule. At 11 months we still have no idea of when she might poo, except we think that maybe they are all done in the mornings. Having now seen lots of info on this website I discover that she isn't 'special' at all and that we are all trying to fathom out a routine for our dogs pooing - what a sad lot we are!

Will definitely try the sweet corn 'trick'.
 
Puppies often do poo in the half hour after eating but it can be helpful to know which meal they are pooing. Sorry is that too much information? Glad you like the tip!
 
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Yes, would be interesting to know. Evie can poo before breakfast meaning she must be pooing at least 14 hours after her last feed. Will try to be more vigilant and see what her pattern is, if any.
 
Ok since we are getting graphic here, if anyone actually does try this, please let us know your findings! Our puppy suffers from delicate tummy/diarrhoea daily so I am wary to add sweetcorn! Would be fascinated to know results though...!!!
 
What are you feeding Bombolone, and is it possible you are giving a little too much? That's a really common reason for loose poo, and guidelines on dog food packs are just guidelines.
 
Hi JoanneF sorry I didn't spot this. So we have tried various "High quality" foods. He came to us on Royal Canin and we moved him on to Guru (cold pressed very pure sounding ingredients). We then tried Orijen. No change. Finally we are on Millie's Wolfheart which he loves (he loves them all!) and no real change. It seemed to be good as gluten free and chicken free etc. He eats ravenously. He is skinny. I give the packet guidelines or less. Still runny. If he has slept a lot they are firm (so at least one a day is firm) but apart from that they are runny (sorry too much info!). Had stool tests done at vet - nothing found untoward.

Not sure what to try next. I am loathe to dramatically decrease quantity of food as he is so hungry always. I take his treats from his weighed out kibble for the day. He is growing very fast. 4kgs at 8 weeks and 9.5 kgs now at 20 weeks. Predicted 15kgs as adult "medium" dog.

Any brainwaves? Am tempted to try a different vet for info about the bad tummy.
 
Did your vet actually test the stools? I'm not as clued up as Gypsysmum (she'll be back soon) on medical issues but that might be a wise move. Remind me please, what is his background - sorry I don't remember!
 
Good questions. His stools were sent to a lab for testing. I don't have all the details of what he was tested for but a lot of scary sounding things!

He was bought from a nice young family - not a formal breeder - who did it for a bit of extra cash. Born in kitchen and raised in kitchen until 8 weeks with family kids etc. The mum is their pet and they hired the dad's services! The family also kept one of his sisters. So it was the nicest, most 'normal' set up I could find (I was freaked out by all the professional breeders/farms), although not a formal breeder so didn't get lots of paperwork or anything.
 
I wasn't sure if he had been a foreign rescue or not, they can have parasites we don't see here. But at least your vet has tested. I take it his worming is up to date?

Does your vet know his first poo in the morning is firm? Because that suggests he is maybe processing his daytime digestion too fast, overnight his system is slowed down enough for the poo to firm up if you know what I mean.

Two other thoughts. One; is it possible you are changing too much and his little system isn't getting adjusted before you change again? And second, have you thought of raw? The big plus for owners is smaller, firmer poos.

And - any progress on sleeping through?
 
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JoanneF you are so kind in your support. Thank you.

Vet not particularly interested in variation in stool - very keen to "push" royal canin products as cure-all..... Not too impressed by vet if I'm honest. Intend to change vets.

I agree re daytime digestion vs night, you are spot on. That is exactly what is happening. Is that something that can be dealt with in some way do you know?

Possibly have changed food too much but he has been on each thing for at least a month (except Lily's kitchen when he was first home). Do you think a month is enough to see any change?

I have heard about raw and I know that people feel very strongly about benefits - which sound great. I am really really loathe to go down that route at this stage though. Struggling with puppy ownership as it is (can you tell?!?!) and raw food is just one thing too much at this moment. I am squeamish about raw meat and red meat generally so would find it really hard.

As for nights, thank you for asking. I am doing the "alarm clock by crate" to wake HIM up before he wakes us up trick. So an alarm goes of by him earlier than he would naturally wake (sometimes!) and I appear and say it's time to get up and go to garden. When it works it works (535 rise- give me strength) and I feel it is getting him to realise he does not wake us up by default. The theory is he will realise he has to wait for alarm instead of barking. And that I do appear regardless of his barking.

But 50% of time he is waking for the loo much earlier - so barking - hence my new focus on diarrhoea thing. I feel this poo thing really needs sorting to help him feel more settled in the night. Last night up at 4 (barked) - diarrhoea and wee in garden (15 mins out there) , back in crate, then woke at 525 (10 mins before my alarm to wake him - arggg) but no toilet action - basically to be let out of crate as other mornings. I have started letting him out of crate after the toilet at 535 and letting him lounge around out of crate downstairs while I go back to bed. He sleeps and doesn't seem to cause havoc and I get back to bed (but rarely sleep) until breakfast at 730, safe in the knowledge he has been to the loo. He doesn't bark for me to come down. I

have to admit I am completely shattered. Getting 4-6 hours sleep each night.

Fingers crossed for new food formula. Fingers crossed for sleep! With sleep everything would seem a whole lot rosier...

Thank you so much for your kind and patient support on here. I am exceedingly grateful.
 
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