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Foot and Mouth

Doug

You seem to have misunderstood some of my previous postings.  I have never said that I disagreed with the fact that we have stopped racing - I just don't think it is the position of the WCRA to lay down the law on the matter.  As you stated the committee is there to administer the sport, not to try and run people lives.  What right have any of the committee to say where and when we run our dogs?  I will now quote from your posting :-

"Which leads to June J's comment about turning down a volunteer.  At this moment in time there are no firm facts on what was said by who to whom and until the full facts are known and all parties have had a chance to respond I don't think any useful purpose is served by pursuing this matter".

You are right Doug, there is no useful purpose in persuing this matter, as nothing said now will change the facts.  I refer to Marks previous posting which was an apology to you, but also stated that the volunteer was turned down, and told it MUST be a Northern member, and Mark has stated a witness was present.

"If there are any developments which the committee feel should be made public I will on their behalf communicate them".

I very much doubt that the committee would want to make any details public, as I doubt the guilty party would ever admit to it, even if there was a witness!!

Without going into any further detail, I think you and I both know what I mean!

"I find it almost insulting to be accused of weakening just because I support a different argument to yours".

This was not meant to be an insult Doug, and I do respect  that you too have an opinion.  I just think you are not as strong as you used to be because in the past you too objected to the dictatorship of the WCRA, and in fact previously you have been quite militant about it.  Many many people voted for you in a hope that things would change, but I think our hopes are now dashed.

"I have always considered you a friend and hope that although we seem to be on opposite sides on this one subject we will continue as friends".

We have had heated arguements before, and it has never stopped us being friends, I doubt this last episode will be any different. :cheesy: ;) :cheesy:

You referred to me as a young 'un - you must be my friend!!

(Edited by June Jonigk at 9:34 am on Mar. 20, 2001)
 
Herewith next round of replies.

Robin.  You are quire right in noting that the Whippet Club Championship Show postponed from 7 April is now re-scheduled for 12 May.  There are however certain factors which make this entirely different from the position in relation to our Championship.  Firstly our Championship is not yet cancelled and won't be until the last possible date.  Secondly assuming it is, then the problem is to find a clear date to re-schedule it given that no one knows at this time how many more Opens will be cancelled either voluntarily by clubs or because their landlords withhold permission to use the land.  Until a clearer picture emerges it looks an impossible problem but we would welcome suggested solutions.  Now dealing specifically with the Whippet Club Show.  The 12 May is a date that is clear of other major shows and it is a date that the Kennel Club has allowed to the Whippet Club.  They have to use a venue that must be pre-booked and again this needs a specific date.  I have spoken to the Secretary of the Whippet Club and am assured that if the F & M situation continues then the Show is still subject to further postponement and they have already started contingency planning.    It is therefore clear that the Whippet Club is no less concerned about people travelling than are the WCRA.  In fact the Whippet Club appoint two members, one of whom is the Secretary of the Whippet Club onto the committee of the WCRA and they are both in agreement with the action taken by the WCRA so far.

Nigel.  Throughout this discussion I have made it clear that I was answering on behalf of the WCRA except where I made it clear that they were my own views.  I think you will appreciate that I must continue with that policy.  I can add that I do not find myself at variance with what has been implemented to date.  There may be occasions when as Secretary I have to communicate decisions which are not my personal view but that is part of being involved in a democratic organisation.  If it arose that my personal views differed and the matter was diametrically opposed to my personal principles then I would resign.

Having said that and to try to answer your question I have already said that if as Secretary I receive from a club notification that that club with the majority support of its membership was going to return to racing then I would make the facts known to all members of the committee and it would be they who would frame the content of any response.

I will incidentally be contacting the committee members in the next couple of days to ascertain if they have had any change of view given the vast amount of varying information coming through the various agencies and media.

Mark R. 23ish.  That's called being economical with the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

June J When you elect a committee you do pass to them the right to make decisions which they feel are correct and for the good of the whole.  If you find yourself in disagreement then you have the privilege of voted them out.  I think the remainder of your post is going over ground already covered and we have both more than fully put forward our arguments.

On the more personal side perhaps we should follow the advice of Mrs Merton and

" have a heated discussion" My phone still works and you can get me Mon, Tues and Weds during the day before 4pm or Fri, Sat Sun in the evening after 7pm or anytime on Thurs  I will gird my loins in anticipation  but don't get too excited as they are now quite wizen loins given my "old age"  
 
Doug, I have just read your response to my question regarding the rescheduling of the whippet club championship show.  You say there are ‘certain factors which make this entirely different from the position in relation to our championship’.  You say there is the problem of finding a clear date to re-schedule.  Is this such a problem?  I feel that most clubs would give up an open date in order for a championship meeting to be held (particularly the clubs who stage two opens a year).  And there are still available dates at the end of the season if a club wanted to re-schedule a second open.  

You also stated that ‘they have to use a venue that must be pre-booked and again this needs a specific date’.  Several of the racing venues need to be pre-booked, and in order to pre-book you need a specific date.  You said the whippet club secretary has assured you that the show is still subject to further postponement if the F&M situation continues and that they have already started contingency planning.  So are we to understand that the championship show will take place eventually somewhere?  This seems to be in contrast to the WCRA attitude about the racing championships which it seems will be lost altogether if they can’t take place on May 6.  

How many championship shows are there each year?  There are only four racing championships each year and it would be very disappointing if one were to be lost.  I don’t know how many championship shows a dog is required to win in order to be classified a champion, but I do know that it is not easy for a racing dog to win two (I have two half champions who are now veterans).  So I think that the WCRA should also be making contingency plans in order that a championship meeting is not lost.

I am sure that you would agree that the risks involved in spreading F&M apply equally to both racing and showing.  So I think that the majority of racers would be very upset if showing were to resume before racing does.  

Thanks for replying anyway.  I am also new to the Internet, and I would like to thank Nigel for providing us with this superb website.    
 
Quote: from DOUG SMITH on 9:40 pm on Mar. 22, 2001no one knows at this time how many more Opens will be cancelled either voluntarily by clubs or because their landlords withhold permission to use the land.
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I am afraid this sentence has made me really mad! Bearing in mind the WCRAs threat to disaffiliate any club that races, (even though their landlords might allow them to), it is an insult to our intelligence to use the word "voluntary." I know you were in the army Doug , but really! Of course with some clubs it might well be voluntary but you will not know! 

I will incidentally be contacting the committee members in the next couple of days to ascertain if they have had any change of view given the vast amount of varying information coming through the various agencies and media.
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Well, I am glad about this but feel the replies might depend on how you ask the question.
 
In reply to your last post Doug, and the response from you -

"June J When you elect a committee you do pass to them the right to make decisions which they feel are correct and for the good of the whole.  If you find yourself in disagreement then you have the privilege of voted them out".

I would like to see the document which gives the WCRA the right to threaten clubs, and make decisions on what they think is "correct and good for the whole".  As far as most of us are aware, the committee is there to run the four championships.

I'm afraid you are wrong about the voting Doug. You can vote people in, but unfortunately you can't vote people out!! :shocked:

So, yes, you are voted in, but the voters who voted for you assume you are going to take account of their views before making decisions.  It is much like the WCRA talk ins, a representative of a club doesn't necessarily represent the feelings of all the members.  Why not have a national ballot?  It could all be done at club level, and a percentage of members for and against taken into account.  Lets face it, they've got precious little else to do at the moment!

(Edited by June Jonigk at 12:18 pm on Mar. 23, 2001)
 
Well, I’m sorry Doug, we’re just going to have to disagree.

I’ve looked back through your posts again and nowhere have you been able to point to any verifiable evidence that supports your case.  On the other hand, others and myself have shown third party documented evidence, which specifically contradicts your views. The only way that I could begin to accept your ideas is if you were able to show me (documented) evidence supporting your case.

I accept you have a different view and you believe in it, hopefully you’ll respect mine. I will just have to hope you are true to your word and are part of the democratic organisation you say. You should therefore accept that if the majority of a club wants to return to racing, and the local authorities agree, then you should support any events held by that club. Don’t put too much belief in the earlier poll you carried out Doug. You asked for club secretaries to make an on the spot decision, without reference to the club members (or each other), under threat of disaffiliation. That doesn't seem a very scientific or trustworthy poll, I think you’d find the ‘ground root’ racers have a very different view.

Signing off.
 
I have read all these posts with interest.But I do think  Doug's critics are missing an important point. The WRCA are volunteers trying their best to "do the right thing". They are faced with a situation which the national goverment supported by the best vets in the land cannot control or advise with conviction upon. It is hardly surprising that our committee will find it difficult to reach acceptable decisions on a situation we have not faced since 1967. My own view is that whippet racing is merely a recreation which will continue once this crisis has passed. The farming community is facing total destruction. What is our whippet racing compared with that. Our committee wants to start racing as soon as possible. Enough of this complaining.  We should all fall in line behind our committee and simply let them get on with it. Their job is difficult enough without us making it moreso.
 
Fat Duncan,

So the ‘WCRA are volunteers trying their best to do the right thing’ .  Right for who?  Are they acting in the best interests of the majority of racers?  If clubs carried out a referendum asking members if they supported the actions of the WCRA, do you really think they would agree with the decisions that have been made and the way in which it has been handled?  

You say ‘it is hardly surprising that our committee will find it difficult to reach acceptable decisions on a situation we have not faced since 1967’.  

Well I don’t think they have found it a hard decision to make. They decided right from the start of the F&M crisis that they would suspend racing, and they presented it to all of the affiliated clubs in such a manner that meant it would be impossible for any club to ignore.  Despite the huge amount of unrest and frustration this has caused amongst the majority of racers, the WCRA are standing by their decision believing they are right and the majority are wrong.  

Doug tells us that the views expressed on this website are being passed on to the committee and that they are taking into consideration what is being said.  But are they really taking notice?  Do they care what the people who elected them really want?  Or do they just think that it is up to them and we can either like it or lump it?  

You say ‘whippet racing is merely a recreation’.  Do you race regularly on the open circuit?  Ask anyone who had a dog finish in the top ten last year if they just regard whippet racing merely as a recreation.  If you have successful racing dogs it becomes almost a way of life, preparing and keeping the dogs in tip-top condition.  So if people seem to be unhappy at the prospect of no whippet racing this year, then I am not surprised.  

I think what is most frustrating is the fact that so many other sports and recreations are still managing to proceed.  The non-pedigree racing is still going on as is greyhound racing and quite a substantial number of dog shows.  I think that faced with the evidence provided by MAFF, the WCRA do not have justification in keeping racing suspended any longer.  If clubs are given the all clear by their local authorities and act responsibly then they should be allowed to resume racing.  

One last point I would like to make is regarding a comment made by a WCRA committee member last Wednesday evening.  That person told a friend of mine that ‘there is unlikely to be any pedigree whippet racing before the end of this year’.  Does that sound like a person who is keen to get back racing as soon as possible?  It’s only a difficult job if you choose to make it so! :angry:
 
Hi Fat Duncan

                     "A recreation" not for me, im board stiff every Sunday, I dont think it matters wheather your an open racer or a club racer if you enjoy seeing your dog run and compeat at any level you get the same enjoyment from it.

those of you who know me know that I have little interest in Opens or Champs but love racing at club level, turning out whatever the weather.

I have spoke to most of our members and almost  all felt that we needed to suspend racing in the short term but that racing MUST now restart as soon as possible.

I spoke to my Vet regarding the risk from dogs and he stated that unless a dog goes onto an infected farm then it is no risk at all of passing on the deseas.
 
Robin & Mark

I agree with you wholeheartedly, as I am sure most responsible pedigree whippet racers, not seeking power will do.  We were all happy to be responsible about the Foot and Mouth problem, and cease racing whilst we were advised to by MAFF.  But now that they know more about how F&M is spreading, and that racing dogs on village greens, and sports centre fields not bordering farms will not affect the spread of the disease, the WCRA should get together and do what they were elected for - stage whippet racing.  I can well believe the comments you heard Robin,  I would not be surprised if there was no racing this year, and I think the WCRA are enjoying weilding their power.  They have the clubs over a barrel, and I think they enjoy it too much.  If they want to gain any respect back from the racers at grass root level, and avoid an uprising like there was over the DNA issue, they should reconsider their present policy, and get us back racing.

Fat Duncan - you are of course entitled to have your say, but forgive us if we giggle a bit.  Your opinion of how the committee is working is obviously formed from your contact with Doug at the Northern.  I think I may have seen you at one or two opens with that gorgeous Sid, but you certainly have a lot to learn about the way the WCRA committee works.  Should we say it's early days for you - you have a lot to learn ;)

(Edited by June Jonigk at 12:22 pm on Mar. 26, 2001)
 
Hello fat Duncan

  I totally agree with the comments made by Robin, Mark and June.  I for one have only been racing for one year and I am totally dedicated.  I did not miss one club race meeting last season and I absolutely loved every minute of it.  I have put a lot of time and effort in to my new pup to get her ready for this season and I feel gutted that the racing season has been put on hold.  When you see other sports going ahead it just makes me think whats going on.  Please WCRA look at the facts which Nigel has kindly presented you.
 
Mr Smith,

Being new to whippet racing, I am afraid that I am not completely up to date with what responsibilities the WCRA have and why they had been set up. However, all indications are that you are a committee set up to act on the behalf of all whippet racers and in the interest of the sport.

So, (if that is the case) why are you continuing to make decisions for all whippet racers that are firstly, in contradiction to the current MAFF guidelines and opposite to most other racing sports (non-peds, greyhounds, horses)

and secondly, why are you not asking members for their opinions?

I know that you normally make contact through the secretaries of clubs, but surely this is an extraordinary situation and it is time for you to ballot all members to find out what they really want (in an open and honest way, so that everyone is aware of the general views).

Everyone that I have spoken to (and I regularly contact a number of racers to pass on what has been said on this site) were in full agreement that the racing should have been suspended at the beginning of the outbreak, but now, five weeks later we are told that it is safe to carry on racing (outside infected areas) and everyone wants to get back racing.

On top of this, I am appauled at the thought of 16 committee members telling me that it is likely that I will not be able to run my dogs this season - can you clarify if this statement is true and whether it is a personal comment or has been discussed by the committee members.

I am beginning to wonder if the members have a grasp on reality at all !?! (no disrespect intended).

As a school teacher, I have two weeks off from work over Easter and I would be more than happy to get together a short questionnaire that could be sent out to all members. You could then distribute this to all club secretaries and they could then send it out to their members. I would then be happy to collate the results.

I do believe that this is a job that you or one of the other committee members should be doing - the main point being, that it can and should be done and only then will you be able to act upon the views of ALL members.

What are you waiting for?

Darcia
 
Well said Darcia ;)

But don't hold your breath :sad:

PS  Why aren't you on the WCRA?  :biggrin:
 
I have been advised that the WCRA are holding a committee meeting on 16th April.

I believe that at least one and possibly two clubs may submit a case for their resumption of racing.  

May I suggest that individuals and clubs lobby through this forum, e-mails, writing, phone calls etc to the WCRA committee members to let their views be known prior to this meeting.  I think also we should seriously consider Darcia's kind offer of a survey.

I have read and had many discussions and understand all the pros and cons that clubs and individuals may have regarding a blanket or selective or even a non-return to racing.  It is an emotive subject and will be a personal/club democratic choice.

What ever your choice - let the the WCRA committee know - and let them make a hopefully fully informed  democratic decision.
 
I have tonight written to all committee members and to all club secretaries to ask their opinions on the way forward in light of the changing situation in relation to the Foot and Mouth outbreak.  I believe that the letter sent to secretaries has no bias nor is it framed in any way to influence the responses from clubs.  I have asked for urgent response so that I can collate the replies and circulate to the committee before the deadlines for entries for the next round of Opens and the 1st Championship.  Once this is done I will pass the information to clubs at the earliest opportunity.

Until this exercise is completed I would prefer to suspend this thread not because I wish to ignore you but rather that the replies may  have a fundemental bearing on how I reply.  

Incidentally the date of the next committee meeting is the 20th April and not the 16th as stated in June's post.
 
Whilst it is good that the WCRA are asking for feedback - is it really any use writing to the club Secretaries.  I can assure everyone that the Northern Secretary will ring each and every member for an opinion, and in fact has already done so, but will this be done in all clubs?  I very much doubt it.  So, we will end up in the same situation as the WCRA talk-ins, views from one or two members of a club, and not the whole membership :angry:
 
Regarding Doug's response re the letter to club secretaries asking for members opinions and June's response, I know both the Northern and the Caledonian Thistle and several other clubs will get fully polled - however for some clubs the numbers, cost and time involved to get a quick response back can be prohibitive.

Yes I know this is a VERY important issue and that should not be a consideration - unfortunately in reality it is.  So can I ask anyone who does NOT hear from their club secretary in the near future, to be pro-active - contact the secretary yourself and ask about the poll, offer to help.   Contact EVERYONE you know in whippet racing and ask them if they have taken part - encourage them to respond, or you take their responses collate them and make the return to your secretary.  It is in everyone's interest to take part and to encourage others to do so.  Not everyone has e-mail / internet etc and they may not be aware of the current status and how important this could be.

Hopefully we can then not be in the situation June has outlined where just 2 or 3 represent the views of one club, and a more democratic and realistic view can be considered by the WCRA committee.

So pick up the phone - get dialling!
 
Hi All

      I fully agree with what both Junes have said, this is a great move forward in the relationship between clubs and the WCRA.

for the bigger clubs may be they could have 2-3 people (Secretary, Charman, Race manager) ringing round to get the feelings of members that way it would spread the cost and cut down on the time to collate responses.
 
I too am glad that the WCRA is seeking feedback but like June wonder just how many secretaries will contact their members for their opinions. Normally, the most they will do, having recieved a letter from the WCRA is to pin it on a noticeboard and at the moment, with no club racing taking place, even that will not happen. How many people have seen the last couple of letters sent to secretaries I wonder.

I am not intending to criticise secretaries, who are after all, only acting in a voluntary capacity and it is hard enough to find anyone to take on the job. We should all be grateful to those that do. I am sure it is mostly a question of time and money and some secretaries do try hard to inform their members (actually Doug was very good at this when he was a club secretary) but under the circumstances the opinions of more than just the 16 secretaries (and their closest friends?) should be taken into account.

Also the precise question that is asked, no matter how unbiased it may be, will have a bearing on the answer.

If I were asked "should all clubs return to racing?" I would say No, because not all clubs can due to the grounds they run on being unsuitable - on farm land or closed by local authorities. They don't need the WCRA to tell them that.

If you were to ask me "do you think that individual clubs should be allowed to return to racing, when and where they have a suitable venue, without fear of recrimination from the WCRA?" then I would say Yes.

It will be interesting anyway to see how many ordinary members are asked for their opinion. It will be a good indication of whether the way that pedigree whippet racing is organised in this country really works with regards to it being a democracy.

Oh! Whilst I have been typing this post I see that June & Mark have beaten me to it. Yes I agree with you guys, good points.

Maybe it would be a good idea Doug if you could post the letter on this board so that as many people as possible get to see it.  It might help to take some of the pressure off secretaries. Of course what the WCRA really needs is it's own web site. We could maybe help with that if you wanted.
 
Hello,

You will not know me but I am on the committee of the WC. I have to defend the WC and its decision to postpone the ch show until the 12th of May. Back when the decision was made the outbreak was not as bad but it seems to be getting worst so the show may yet be cancelled.

I have just spoken to the secretary and everything that Doug has said about the show is true, re the license etc, but we are reviewing the situation all the time.

If we decided to cancelled then the entries would have to be returned and the show would then be held in October with a new license and we have to see if the hall is available.

I can safely say it is a very hard decision on the different committees and it is not easy to please everyone.

There is a person in Whippets at this moment, I am led to believe, that is living this tragedy of foot and mouth on their farm so maybe we can all stop and think before sounding off at people who are in 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.

I personally show whippets and I haven't been to a show since February so I am as keen as you to show than you to race but we should remember that it is the farmers livelihood and not ours.

Emma
 
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