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Salcot

Salcot

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Folks, we have a real problem. The dog is a 75% whippet, 25% Lurcher or Saluki - we're not sure which, about 10 months old. He gets walked every day, and as soon as we are in an area where we can't see other people, we let him off the lead. Sometimes he runs in huge, mad circles, and if he sees a crow or pheasant, he chases it - and he goes like a rocket. The big problem is that he is attracted to strangers, and if he sees one, even so far away that they are too small to say whether man or woman, he has to be kept on the lead or he'll be off, and once he starts running, he doesn't respond at all to calls or even an electric training collar. The distance that he covers in 10-15 seconds can take me 10 minutes - which I invariably need to do, because he absolutely won't come back. The problem is hugely compounded if the other person is walking a dog. I have never experienced the case where another person's dog has come to me, and they have had to come and retrieve it - it's always the other way around.
H's not in the slightest aggressive - he just wants to play, or jump up to people and make a fuss - but a lot of people don't like that, and a lot of children are frightened of dogs.
He is normally kept indoors, and when we take him out, he always leaves the house on his lead, but there have been a few occasions when he has escaped through the front door, and if we don't realise, a neighbour usually arrives at the door with our dog. It's pretty embarrassing, but today, my daughter went out to her car and closed the dog inside the house, but her two-year-old opened the door and let him out, after which we had a stern text message from our next door lawyer telling us to keep him on the lead whenever their children are around. Apparently he had jumped up to the neighbour's mother, who had dropped her phone as a result, and said "it may be damaged", and frightened their little boy, who is scared of dogs.
I have a good relationship with the dog, and he obeys me most of the time. If I spot a stranger before he does, I put him on the lead, but , but if he spots somebody before I do, he goes off as if he's in a race, and the only thing I can do is to start to follow him. We are considering re-homing him, but it would be a great disappointment, as much as anything for my grandchildren, who love him (as do I).
Can anybody say what effect training would be likely to have on this breed? We have, of course, tried - through reading etc, though without professional help. If you think it would help, how long would it take? Can you offer any other suggestions?
 
My 2 cents - you will not be able to get reliable recall soon. Unless you find something more attractive than humans and dogs in the distance, but realistically what can that be?

As he grows older, he will probably start losing interest in strange humans and dogs, but it's years down the road.

So, while keeping training going - I would try to focus on management and see how to reliably prevent his escapes.

Perhaps let him run free at different times or places.
Some kind of system that prevents him from escaping the house even if grandkids open the door by accident. Grandkids will grow up soon too, by the way, and will become more reliable.
Long line if nothing else works.

Good luck, hopefully someone else will have good training suggestions.

And one more thing - I would lose that electric shock collar...
 
I would keep him on a long line while out, if he has no recall then that’s the safest thing for him. In my house I have baby gates on the living room and kitchen doors, I live on a main road so my dog getting out could be fatal. It becomes second nature after a while to say ‘wheres the dog’ before opening the front door and then putting him behind a gate before opening the door. You have to take control His safety is the most important thing in both cases.
 
Please ditch the shock collar - with his mix, he will be a very sensitive dog and aversives can really damage that fragile brain.

His behaviour is typical of his mix, particularly if there's saluki in there. If you want a laugh, and to realise you're not alone, read Stephen Foster's Walking Ollie and Along Came Dylan. Don't use them as training manuals though, he didn't always get it right!

For now, management is the key. Long line - ALWAYS attached to a harness, never to his collar - when there may be other people about, use lots of treats for recall (from the other end of the long line) or just for staying close to you. Never 'tell off' or use harsh words - these aren't great for any dog but this is particularly important for your dog. And so he can let of steam, try to find a secure place - there's a website giving details here: The Only Listings Site for Enclosed Dog Walking Fields in the UK

Saluki crosses are trainable, but you need to work with their 'special' brain. They don't do obedience for the sake of obedience, they need to see a reason for your request. They're more like cats in that respect. They're also good at the six-foot recall when they'll come back to within six foot of you and then do a merry dance to stay six feet away! If you get a trainer/behaviourist, make sure they have sighthound experience. Try to train them like a collie and you'll end up with a very broken and very unmotivated dog.
 
Both his age (discovering his independence as he grows out of puppyhood) and his breed (with deep rooted traits to run) are against you. It may be that he is never trustworthy off lead so I would suggest getting a long line. You can get really, really long ones so has the freedom to explore but you have control. ALWAYS have a long line attached to a harness, never a collar, because if he is running he won't know when he is about to reach the end and the jerk on his neck could cause nasty injuries. That would also allow you to ditch the shock collar - he won't understand why he is being punished and won't learn anything from it. They are unnecessarily cruel.

A line will keep him controlled - you just can't allow him to run up to people and other dogs. He may be friendly but a person might be unsteady on their feet, afraid of dogs etc. As might the other dog be ill, in recovery, elderly or just intolerant of his bolshy behaviour. You have already had a warning from your neighbour; if a pattern develops the dog warden might deem him out of control and have him removed and destroyed. The legal position is not that he actually has to harm someone, they only have to be in fear that he might so he already fits the pattern. In fact I think you have been lucky up to now.

For the doors, use a double door or airlock system. Make your garden secure. Keep the doors locked with the key on a hook too high for your grandchildren to reach. Put signs on the inside of the door to remind everyone. Basically do what you need to or he will get himself into serious trouble, and nobody wants that.
 
Electric training collar? :mad:

Its not without reason that these things are banned or being banned. Get rid of it they are barbaric.

Start with a long line a harness and lots and lots of recall training. At the moment you are risking your dogs life every time you let him loose because he might be friendly but many laws say if a person so much as feels threatened you could be charged with having an out of control dog. Besides that how do you know what other dogs might think? He might be friendly but how will he cope if he bumps into something bigger, more powerful, and much less dog friendly while you are just a speck on the horizon?
 
This is a very young hunting type dog. They were called gaze-hounds once for a very good reason: they gazed at the horizon in search of prey. He is trying to do what nature intended. since he is your dog it is up to you to find a way to give him exercise and gradually train him BUT he's a baby still. Can you find somewhere fenced that is secure? And you really do need to keep him secure, as you would a young child. If your life-style doesn't allow that may I suggest this is the wrong dog for you? Perhaps he and you would be happier if you rehomed him?

As for the shock-collar...I have no words.:eek:
 
Folks, many thanks for all the replies. From the general tenor, it seems that we have a running dog that will never be allowed to run, which is disappointing to say the least. He's not the first whippet I've had - and it's such a joy to see them run, and he relishes it. It's what he was made for! We walk him on one of those spring-loaded extensible leads, which gives him 15 metres, but even at that, he's continually getting caught around the wrong side of trees etc, so I imagine having him on a long lead (50 yards?) would be a nightmare for walking him. I looked at the link for dog walking fields, but the only one mentioned is several miles away, so that's a non-starter as he hates going in the car. He gets car-sick. However, we are well served for dog walking fields within an easy walk of the house. "The Deer Park" is probably about 20 acres, but my daughter remarked the other day how he makes it look small.
A note about the training collar, which most of you have remarked on: As I said - it didn't work, so I thought you'd understand that it is not being used. No point in using something that has no effect. It was tried a couple of months ago in desperation, but where somebody said "he's a sensitive dog", as far as the collar was concerned, he was totally insensitive - to the point that I thought it wasn't working, and tried it on my hand (where it worked) and on my neck (where it WORKED!). It would certainly train me, but his flinch was barely perceptible, and he didn't show any discomfort. Once he's got his mind riveted on something, nothing will distract him.
 
This is the reality of owning a lurcher ...quite different to a whippet ....i have owned lurchers most of my life and fostered many over a 25 yr period ...they are wired differently to most other breeds although running dogs many live happy lives on extending leads ...he may be bored and need brain stimulation. ..what are you feeding him ....lurchers can be like a kid on smarties on the wrong food ...they do better on a low protein diet ....whilst rehoming him could be an option ...the reality is there are thousands of lurchers looking for forever homes .....
 
He is still very young, so don't give up hope of ever being able to let him off lead. It was me who mentioned being sensitive - I meant that more in the sense that his brain could be a bit fragile. Sighthounds can rip a hole in themselves on a barbed wire fence to chase a deer without even noticing, then scream the place down if they stub a toe. So no, he wouldn't notice the shock collar when he's focused on something else, but if he did notice it, he could freak out. But anyway... you're not using it so no worries there.

Someone else I know who is also a member of this forum (@NaomiH ) has a saluki x who she really struggled with when he was younger, but became much easier with age. Have a read through this thread, started by someone else with a saluki x whippet x wild thing, which she contributes in: Struggling with our sight hound :(
 
I have a terrier rather than your breed but I do feel your pain. Harri is totally deaf when it comes to recall if he sees something more interesting ( ie another dog, deer, rabbits, rats etc etc). He's on a long line now and will be for quite a while yet. He's a lot better with other dogs than he used to be but I don't think we will ever overcome the terrier instinct to hunt.

It's such a shame cos he loves being off lead but there are only a few situations where I take the risk.
 
George is also everyones friend but he would run if he was allowed to be off lead. But we knew that before he came its typical of his breed so we knew the kind of commitment we were making. He has a long line to allow playtime whilst keeping him safe.
 
How about taking him to The Deer Park early in the morning, before everyone else shows up?
It must be beautiful there at sunrise ;-)
 
If The Deer Park lives up to its name, it might be a really bad place to let him off lead ;) But walking him at silly o'clock when no one else is likely to be about might be an option even if it's a painful one.
 
JudyN said:
If The Deer Park lives up to its name ...
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I've seen horses in a part of it - but never venison on the hoof, so to speak.
Your comment makes me think of Fenton. If you don't know the clip, search YouTube for "Jesus Christ in Richmond Park". I can't post links yet.

walking him at silly o'clock ... might be an option even if it's a painful one.
Click to expand...
Yes, Judy - you just don't know how painful.
 
Folks - number of you have promoted the idea of a "long line", and JoanneF spoke of "really really long ones"
What length do you have in mind? He has a fairly long one at the moment - an extensible one that comes out like a tape as opposed to a round-section cord, and I like it because it maintains a constant tension on his harness, which stops it from getting between his legs. It allows him to run ahead, stop and sniff at something while we walk past, then catch up again, and the lead extends and contracts to suit.
 
Salcot said:
I
Your comment makes me think of Fenton. If you don't know the clip, search YouTube for "Jesus Christ in Richmond Park". I can't post links yet.


Yes, Judy - you just don't know how painful.
Click to expand...

Yes, having a deerhound x lurcher, I'm one of the few people who didn't find it funny! I would feel just the same as you about walking my dog at silly o'clock. I'm really not a morning person so I would have to be absolutely desperate to walk mine before 6am but I know some people do. I'm sure it's all worth it when you see the sun rise......:confused:
 
I use a 10m webbing one. They are very cheap on Amazon and very light. I'd avoid the one by Clix. When it gets wet (and it will) it gets very very heavy. The webbing one is fine even when wet. You'll need gloves too - I use a pair of lightweight gardening gloves. And yes, always with a harness.

The main advantage of them is that once your dog is at that stage when he's mostly reliable is that you can drop the line and give him total freedom. If he takes off you have a 10m drag line that you can stamp on. It might be harder with a sighthound but Harri gives me enough cues that he's on to something that allows me to catch him in time (mostly!)

The retractables teach them to pull as they need to do so to unwind the tape. I'm also always worried about the mechanism breaking. Harri is only 10kg but the force he can exert is surprising.
 
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