Dogs behaving badly

[JoanneF]

What a strange post, I don,t understand why you are complaining

I also have been struggling to make sense of it. The sad fact is that while the science of understanding dog behaviour has moved on, Graeme Hall has not. He still uses methods that have been shown to be ineffective at best and harmful at worst (ref Judy's post above).

 

[Free spirit]

I was not referring to either person who have responded. It just sends me.crazy that such an.industry has.built up around dog training when for.thousands of years we.managed just gone without.them.They are just dogs the same dogs.who have lived happily along side man since the year dot. As i say I don't give a.rats behind how others train their dog.

 

[JoanneF]

.crazy that such an.industry has.built up around dog training when for.thousands of years we.managed just gone without.them.

You could also argue that for thousands of years we managed without lots of things like good dentistry and medical care, but average life span was about 30 years. I don't think it's unreasonable to use our knowledge, understanding and science to make lives better for dogs and their owners - but it does saddens me to see people like him who have not updated their knowledge and who use methods that are seriously flawed. Again, @JudyN 's post above says it all.

 

[Free spirit]

I,m sure you would say my methods are seriously flawed but I don't care they work for me and that's what matters "seriously flawed is just an opinion" and just like a* *holes we all have one of them

 

[JudyN]

"seriously flawed is just an opinion"

No, sometimes 'seriously flawed' is the objective truth. If your methods work for you and your dogs, that's fine - as I said, the old-school methods work, or appear to work, for many dogs. I dare say you can tell if your dog is shut down or anxious and adjust your handling, but there's plenty of evidence on Youtube (cute baby climbing all over dog) that many people haven't a clue what their dog's body language is saying.

And if you're suggesting that some people should keep their opinions to themselves... well, what would be the point of forums like this?

 

[Free spirit]

I really don't recognise the expression shut down other than it is a buzz word created by a very lucrative dog training industry. You can't hurt a dogs feelings.

 

[JoanneF]

You can't hurt a dogs feelings.

I don't agree - maybe not in the same way as a human but you can definitely break their bond with you. That said, it's not really what shut down means. Shut down is where the dog is trying to protect himself from what is happening around him, usually by doing as little as possible for fear of doing the wrong thing. It can look like the dog is being calm and compliant but closer observation of the body language gives clues of the dog being highly stressed and anxious.

 

[Nanny71]

Some would say I didn't really train Dudley.
We went to three classes and hated them.
Somehow he learned to come when I called. Walks very nicely to heel and waits at the road when I tell him to.
I did some sort of long line (washing line) in the garden and used treats. He did just seem to walk by my side automatically. Even over the field he will run around with the other dogs, then come back and walk by my side.
I know he is a little dog and maybe easier than a big dog I just don't know.

I do like reading all the posts but some of them can make you wonder if you are doing the right thing. Basically it is what works for the individual person and dog.
I admit to being a bit upset about the collar vs harness discussion because he has a collar not a harness but that works for us.

 

[JoanneF]

I admit to being a bit upset about the collar vs harness discussion because he has a collar not a harness but that works for us.

If he walks well on a collar there's no problem. The risk with a long line or flexi lead attached to a collar or head collar (rather than a harness) is just that if the dog is running out, they don't know when they are going to reach the end of the line and they can get stopped with a jerk that can damage their neck, trachea or back.

 

[Free spirit]

I too use a collar because the harness just encouraged him to pull.

 

[JudyN]

@Nanny71, you have nothing to worry about - you and Dudley are doing just fine. If you decided that Dudley didn't like training classes so stopped going, you are responding to his needs and his mental state, which is great!

There's nothing wrong with collars (IMO - some would disagree) - I use one. The comment about the Great Dane above was using a headcollar with a long line - if a large dog runs to the end of a long line it can be going fast enough to get one heck of a jolt, assuming the human at the other end can hang on!

Jasper was pretty easy to train recall as he's a velcro dog and highly food motivated. To my mind, some dogs are like your average family hatchback - you can stamp on the brakes, give it a bit of wellie, throw it into corners and even if it's not the best thing for the car's longevity, it'll all be fine. Some are more like Ferarris and Formula 1 cars - if you've got a standard road licence and handle it the same way then you're both going to end up broken!

 

[Dibbythedog]

I really don't recognise the expression shut down other than it is a buzz word created by a very lucrative dog training industry. You can't hurt a dogs feelings.

Just because you don't a recognise a term doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist.
Shut down means Learned Helplessness , It is a term used in basic psychology that covers all mammal including humans.

I don't know what you mean by you cant hurt a dogs feelings. If your dog does something funny , he wont understand why you laugh or feel embarrassed but he certainly does have emotions and being afraid and scared is part of the fear emotion, they lose confidence and trust in you .

You've been quite harsh on trainers and behaviourists . you say that you've put together your own training etc but what you are doing is using what most PR trainers and behaviourists designed and advise anyway .

When dogs are put too sleep for being aggressive since the dangerous dogs act then we certainly need good trainers and behaviourists and not self promoting Cesar Milan wanna be's .

 

[Mad Murphy]

@JudyN .. I love the F1 analogy.. I've never had any of my dogs at training yet they all learn to walk on lead, come when called sit stay etc ... Murphy is different his breed are well known to shut down if forced and once the trust is gone its gone. You cant force them. There are enough in rehoming centres because harsh owners try to force them and end up with a dog who refuses to even acknowledge them ..I took him to lessons hoping to improve our understanding of each other.

 

[Dibbythedog]

Some would say I didn't really train Dudley.
We went to three classes and hated them.
Somehow he learned to come when I called. Walks very nicely to heel and waits at the road when I tell him to.
I did some sort of long line (washing line) in the garden and used treats. He did just seem to walk by my side automatically. Even over the field he will run around with the other dogs, then come back and walk by my side.
I know he is a little dog and maybe easier than a big dog I just don't know.

I do like reading all the posts but some of them can make you wonder if you are doing the right thing. Basically it is what works for the individual person and dog.
I admit to being a bit upset about the collar vs harness discussion because he has a collar not a harness but that works for us.

You did the right thing by not going back to training classes. Some dogs find them very stressful and some are badly run.
Really , the idea of training classes is to train the owner to train their dog. With the dogs I have now , I would rather have a one to one than go to training classes.

 

[Dibbythedog]

I was not referring to either person who have responded. It just sends me.crazy that such an.industry has.built up around dog training when for.thousands of years we.managed just gone without.them.They are just dogs the same dogs.who have lived happily along side man since the year dot. As i say I don't give a.rats behind how others train their dog.

Dogs lived "happily" with man because the ones that didn't would be destroyed !
Life has changed now, dogs are under tremendous pressure to adapt to the lives we lead now.

 

[Free spirit]

What are you crazy ?

 

[JoanneF]

What are you crazy ?

? Is that directed at anyone in particular or a collective "you"? And if you would like to be a little more specific, perhaps we could explain why we are saying something you seem to disagree with.

 

[Dibbythedog]

What are you crazy ?

It would help if you could do quotes so we know who you are talking too.

Click on quote and then reply. then just type in your answer .

 

[Free spirit]

!My dog knows nothing about trying to fit in with the pressure of modern life.He gets up eats poop runs around barks , wags his tail poops again ,lies in front of the fire and finally goes to bed and never gives modern life a thought he just does dog all day, he never a day in his life. Off out now.

 

[Mad Murphy]

@Free spirit your dog is very lucky. Sounds like the ideal life.

Sadly most of us live in situations where our dogs have to adapt to the surroundings we live in so modern life does affect them be it screaming kids ( not our own) or traffic or neighbours or lots of other dogs .. society is less tolerant these days so we have to do our best to fit in and that often means training to help them deal with these things.