Dog with sinus and throat congestion. Help!!

[Expodog]

Sorry but this might be a bit long and apologies for the snotty references!. 

We have a staffie/collie cross who is 12 years old (we think - he was a rescue). For around 4-5 weeks now he has been suffering from a congested throat/sinus/nose. His nose is snotty, mostly on one side, his throat and sinuses are obviously congested and he constantly hacks/snorts due to the fluid in his airways. This is worse at night and there have been times when we've been up with him 4 or 5 times in the night when he seems literally to be fighting of every breath .... almost drowning!! To be honest, its awful and distressing to witness and we feel helpless to help.

He has been to our vet several times. Treatment to date as follows: three courses of two different antibiotics, course of vasodilators, course of drug to clear/dry his sinuses, anti-histamines, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, diuretics to try to clear some fluid, currently now on prednisalone. He has also been in for a general anaesthetic under which he had chest and sinus x-rays, nose and throat swabs, nose and throat scopes, tracheal wash: nothing of significance was found and we are reluctant (at his age) to subject him to another round of similar investigations. Our vet is now telling us that there is little else he can do, and we believe he's done everything he can do (this is not a vet bashing thread at all) but i'm sitting here typing this listening him to him struggling to breath and clear the snot in his nose and throat. He literally does sound as if he's choking sometimes. He sneezes from time to time but is not coughing at all.

In spite of this, he's eating well, not losing weight, peeing and pooing normally and seems bright and active in himself, so clearly has some quality of life and a will to go on. He enjoys short walks and even chased a rabbit this morning. He's clearly very tired, however, due to him struggling to sleep. 

We are now at the stage where we literally don't know what to do. Before we face making any "big" decisions, I thought I might put this out there and see if any other dog owners have had a similar experience, have any words of wisdom or advice to offer or can suggest any treatment of any kind which might help. I've considered spraying his nose with a human anti-contestant such as Sinex or Otrivine, but haven't done so as I have no idea how it will affect him. I've also looked into homeopathsic remedies, but again have not administered anything at this stage.

Thank you for reading and for any words of wisdom you may be able to offer.

 

[dogmatize]

Hello expo dog. I have had a whippet who had similar symptoms. She was greatly affected by environmental irritants. Scented candles, disinfectant, pollen and smoke from the fire were the worst. When she was really bad she was treated with prednisolone. Her symptoms came and went depending on what she'd come into contact with. I would be going down the herbal or homeopathic route now.

 

[JoanneF]

I have no real idea but didn't want to read and run. Its just a thought but can you get access to oxygen for him for the really bad times?

 

[dogmatize]

In a similar vein to Joanne F: my previous vet had an asthmatic dog on whom she used a babies inhaler device- like a nebuliser to administer ventolin.

 

[gypsysmum2]

I would be asking for a referral to a specialist vet in this field. Yes, your vet has exhausted all avenues that his/her experience allows so now is the time to seek specialist advice. If it were a human we would be seeing Ear/Nose/Throat consultant by now.

Remember that you are your dog's advocate so you must describe the distress your dog is in because your dog cannot tell the vet. Vet's refer to specialists all the time and will not take any offence at you asking for an urgent referral. In fact, I suspect he/she will be relieved and anxious to know what the specialist thinks. You are still in charge and so don't have to agree to any invasive procedures unless you are convinced that he outcome will be worth it for your dog.

I live near (ish) to Newmarket, the headquarters of British horseracing. They use Salt Therapy a lot on horses with respiratory problems. It has a very good reputation. Someone near me has, after using it on her horse, opened a clinic for dogs to benefit from it. My understanding is that the salt is inhaled from a dry mist and just like when they used to send TB patients to the seaside it helps all the bronchial tubes to settle. http://www.norfolkpetsalttherapy.co.uk/  There may be a similar set up near you?

 

[Expodog]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Much appreciated. 

Dogmatize .... I've ordered some homeopathic silica drops to try and am researching further herbal remedies to see if there's anything else we can try. I also own a horse who has been treated with ventolin in the past so will be asking the vet for his views on this. He has another week on his prednisone treatment so we're planning to continue with that for now and then revisit the vet early next week.

JoanneF ... good idea and another one to explore. I have no idea how to achieve this but something else to discuss with the vet.

gypsysmum2 .... I totally agree with your views about being our dogs advocate, but this role has to include considering his best interests long term. He's getting on and has other health problems (arthritis) so we need to look at the bigger picture. Our vet has mentioned a specialist referral but we are reluctant to put him through further anaesthetic and invasive testing. Thank you for the salt therapy link. I had never heard of this before do will certainly look at it in detail, although Newmarket is a 250 mile round trip from here so would need to find somewhere nearer. 

Onwards and upwards. He's eaten well today and seems reasonably comfortable at the moment, so we'll see how he is overnight. I should add that I have full faith in our vet and will be seeing him again very soon.

Thabk you again for your comments.

 

[JoanneF]

Please keep us updated. Wishing him and you all the best.

 

[leashedForLife]

poor fella - sounds like a mizrable bout of sinusitis, but he is also eating as usual, bright & as active as he normally would be, so he's not ready to throw in the towel yet.

I wonder if a plain sterile-saline spray would help? - be sure it's ISOtonic, meaning the same salinity as tears in the eye; that means it is neither more briny nor more dilute than body fluids, & won't irritate his nasal passages nor his throat.
A brief spray with isotonic saline would help make the thicker gunk easier to blow out by diluting the mucus; it might be a good precaution to use the saline spray while he stands in the dry bathtub, so that if he snorts violently & blows a lot of green junk, it can be easily hosed away.   If there's no safety mat to give him traction, U can stand him on a folded towel so that he doesn't scrabble on the slick surface in a panic, & freak-out.

also, an infant NASAL BULB to gently suck mucus out of his nostrils might help, but again, i'd only use the vacuum bulb after the isotonic saline - 5 to 10-mins after the saline spray, i would very carefully insert the open tip while someone else held the dog's head steady.  The primary person must put one hand under the dog's chin & use the other to set the SQUEEZED-EMPTY bulb against his nostril, with the open tip inside the nostril, & the flare of the bulb making a decent seal with the inner edges of the nostril.
Then gently ease the pressure of Ur fingers on the collapsed bulb, to allow it to expand & pull on the goop in his sinuses - don't go for a fast release, & don't let the entire bulb pop open & refill, that's too fast & can cause ear pain! - Slow release, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 open on the bulb, then take it away from his nose, & check to see if any mucus was pulled into the bulb.
ThE PERSON WHO RESTRAINS HIM should instantly give  a high-protein treat as soon as the bulb is removed - the other person is busy emptying & rinsing the gooey bulb, but he needs a nice stinky goody right now, to make a happy association with the vacuum-bulb.   Freeze-dried beef liver or lamb-lung should both go over well.

Never squeeze the bulb while it's inside his nostril - U could seriously damage his ears; the eardrum is delicate & thin, & if this sinus infection is also in his inner-ear, the eardrum can be abnormally tight from pressure, or even thinned by tissue damage, or stretched by inflammation & swelling.  Expel the air before U get the bulb anywhere near the dog; then very cautiously insert the tip, & reduce the pressure on the collapsed bulb to let it expand slightly, creating a partial vacuum.

Infant nasal aspirators -
https://parent.guide/the-best-baby-nasal-aspirator-for-blocked-noses/

Poland's special version: adapter connects to household vacuum cleaner AKA "the hoover", with a REDUCTION flange to prevent injury to the baby.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATAREK-Runny-Nose-Vacuum-Nasal-Aspirator-for-Children-Baby-Vac-NA-KATAR-/301819644961

NOTE that the vacuum / hoover is set to "...between 800 Watts and 1500 Watts..." of power. // I'd start with 500-watts & then go up as needed, cautiously.


Don't forget to reward co-operation early & often - touch his nose with whichever aspirator, remove, reward, repeat... lingering a bit longer. // If U intend to use the Katarek, be sure that Ur dog does not react to the hoover by running from the room & hiding under the bed, nor does he want to chase & bite the vacuum head! - neither is helpful when U are trying to drain the goop from his sinuses, poor pup.

Q, did the vet X-ray his sinuses / skull?
I ask because my then-boyfriend's housemate had a 3-YO Lab who developed a persistently runny nostril on one side, clear thin mucus which later became thick & opaque, over a period of about 6-mos. // He was found to have a tumor high in the sinus, growing into the forebrain & causing pressure - it was not operable when it was finally diagnosed, it had been too long developing.
I do not think every dog with a snotty nostril has a tumor; however, GRASS AWNS & such bizarre things as splinters of wood have gotten up nostrils, & fungal infections are also possible. A radiograph might help show some clues.

Q 2 - has the gunk been cultured to try to determine what microbes might be causing it? // A culture would allow tests to see what meds can effectively kill the critters, if any, without giving a series of meds to the dog - he'd get only the one that worked.

good luck, i do hope he is well again very soon.
- terry

 

[Expodog]

poor fella - sounds like a mizrable bout of sinusitis, but he is also eating as usual, bright & as active as he normally would be, so he's not ready to throw in the towel yet.

I wonder if a plain sterile-saline spray would help? - be sure it's ISOtonic, meaning the same salinity as tears in the eye; that means it is neither more briny nor more dilute than body fluids, & won't irritate his nasal passages nor his throat.
A brief spray with isotonic saline would help make the thicker gunk easier to blow out by diluting the mucus; it might be a good precaution to use the saline spray while he stands in the dry bathtub, so that if he snorts violently & blows a lot of green junk, it can be easily hosed away.   If there's no safety mat to give him traction, U can stand him on a folded towel so that he doesn't scrabble on the slick surface in a panic, & freak-out.

also, an infant NASAL BULB to gently suck mucus out of his nostrils might help, but again, i'd only use the vacuum bulb after the isotonic saline - 5 to 10-mins after the saline spray, i would very carefully insert the open tip while someone else held the dog's head steady.  The primary person must put one hand under the dog's chin & use the other to set the SQUEEZED-EMPTY bulb against his nostril, with the open tip inside the nostril, & the flare of the bulb making a decent seal with the inner edges of the nostril.
Then gently ease the pressure of Ur fingers on the collapsed bulb, to allow it to expand & pull on the goop in his sinuses - don't go for a fast release, & don't let the entire bulb pop open & refill, that's too fast & can cause ear pain! - Slow release, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 open on the bulb, then take it away from his nose, & check to see if any mucus was pulled into the bulb.
ThE PERSON WHO RESTRAINS HIM should instantly give  a high-protein treat as soon as the bulb is removed - the other person is busy emptying & rinsing the gooey bulb, but he needs a nice stinky goody right now, to make a happy association with the vacuum-bulb.   Freeze-dried beef liver or lamb-lung should both go over well.

Never squeeze the bulb while it's inside his nostril - U could seriously damage his ears; the eardrum is delicate & thin, & if this sinus infection is also in his inner-ear, the eardrum can be abnormally tight from pressure, or even thinned by tissue damage, or stretched by inflammation & swelling.  Expel the air before U get the bulb anywhere near the dog; then very cautiously insert the tip, & reduce the pressure on the collapsed bulb to let it expand slightly, creating a partial vacuum.

Infant nasal aspirators -
https://parent.guide/the-best-baby-nasal-aspirator-for-blocked-noses/

Poland's special version: adapter connects to household vacuum cleaner AKA "the hoover", with a REDUCTION flange to prevent injury to the baby.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATAREK-Runny-Nose-Vacuum-Nasal-Aspirator-for-Children-Baby-Vac-NA-KATAR-/301819644961

NOTE that the vacuum / hoover is set to "...between 800 Watts and 1500 Watts..." of power. // I'd start with 500-watts & then go up as needed, cautiously.


Don't forget to reward co-operation early & often - touch his nose with whichever aspirator, remove, reward, repeat... lingering a bit longer. // If U intend to use the Katarek, be sure that Ur dog does not react to the hoover by running from the room & hiding under the bed, nor does he want to chase & bite the vacuum head! - neither is helpful when U are trying to drain the goop from his sinuses, poor pup.

Q, did the vet X-ray his sinuses / skull?
I ask because my then-boyfriend's housemate had a 3-YO Lab who developed a persistently runny nostril on one side, clear thin mucus which later became thick & opaque, over a period of about 6-mos. // He was found to have a tumor high in the sinus, growing into the forebrain & causing pressure - it was not operable when it was finally diagnosed, it had been too long developing.
I do not think every dog with a snotty nostril has a tumor; however, GRASS AWNS & such bizarre things as splinters of wood have gotten up nostrils, & fungal infections are also possible. A radiograph might help show some clues.

Q 2 - has the gunk been cultured to try to determine what microbes might be causing it? // A culture would allow tests to see what meds can effectively kill the critters, if any, without giving a series of meds to the dog - he'd get only the one that worked.

good luck, i do hope he is well again very soon.
- terry

Hello terry .... many thanks for your comprehensive reply. We've had another difficult night with him but he's now barking for his morning walk and his breakfast, so days of ups and downs!! The saline spray idea is a very good one. I have a baby nasal aspirator so will see if our local pharmacy has any isotonic saline we can use and try our your idea .... could get messy but if it gives him some relief then certainly worth a try. 

To answer your questions, yes his sinuses and skull were X-rayed from every angle last week and nothing like a lump or tumour  was located. That doesn't mean there isn't one there of course and our vet did advise that something like this might be the cause. His nostrils were scoped and no foreign bodies located. 

He also had all the available swabs cultured and has had a course of a different antibiotic as a result. Sadly this doesn't seem to have had any effect   so we're sticking with the prednisone for a few more days and then back to vets on Monday. The idea that it might be fungal has been discussed and we might ask for further tests to see if that's a cause and what can be done if so. I don't know if that would have shown up in the original swabs or not, or what treatment is given for fungal infections. 

So, we're battling on with it. I'm off to source saline today and try the nasal wash idea. His favourite reward treat is cooked chicken so I'll get that too while I'm out!! I've also obtained some homeopathic drops (silica) to try. 

Would you administer a human nasal decongestant of any kind? I see you're in the USA but we have Sinex or otrivine sprays here which I would use on myself in similar circumstances. 

Anyway .... Thank you so much once again for taking the time to reply. I'll keep you updated. 

Best regards .... Sara

 

[leashedForLife]

coward that i am, Sara, i'd ask my vet which decongestants [if any] might safely help him; i've never used a decongestant for a dog, only for ppl, so wouldn't have any idea what's apropos or safe, or even if it's effective. But heck, it can't hurt to ask.

Another Q i thot of, overnite - Does he eat any DAIRY? - Milk, cheese, etc?

Dairy products can help generate "extra" mucus; if he's eating yogurt, U can switch to non-fat dairy yogurt [as a supportive prebiotic for his gut microbes, & also as a vehicle to get live probiotic critters into him - slide the 2 halves of the clear capsule apart, gently tap the halves to dislodge all the powder onto a Tbsp of FF-yogurt, mix & serve.
Antibiotics are notorious for killing gut flora, that's another good query for the vet - Can he take probiotics, & is Fat-Free organic yogurt OK, while on this particular antibiotic? -- Some antibiotics get along fine with dairy; some cannot be given with dairy in the diet, at all, or it needs to be X hours apart between consuming dairy & taking the Rx.]

I really hope the vet gets to a root cause, or perhaps several, with one thing piggy-backing on an initial insult & taking advantage of a prior infection / injury.
  Was he prone to ear-infections as a pup, or B4 this awful sinusitis began? -- I wonder if it's a subclinical infection that moved from ear or Eustachian tube to the sinuses.

Tell Ur good boy we are thinking of him, & i'm sure all the DogForum folks are sending healing vibes.  Good thoughts cannot possibly hurt, & just might help.  
- terry
 

 

[leashedForLife]

...
I have a baby nasal aspirator so will see if our local pharmacy has any isotonic saline we can use and try our your idea .... could get messy but if it gives him some relief then certainly worth a try. 
...

take a peek at the article on "best models" -
I don't know if Ur aspirator is one of the all-one-piece molded rubber type, but those cannot be TAKEN APART for cleaning, & can [probly will] grow molds & mildew, unseen, inside.  I would never have thot of that; we had the old red-rubber bulb in our medicine chest all thru my childhood & into my college years, & aside from rinsing with hot H2O & dish-detergent, it was never "cleaned" nor was the interior accessible. 

Maybe Urs is the new-generation of mouth-powered suction, with a clear tube? -- those look very simple & functional, & certainly easy to disassemble & clean. // I'm thinking of getting one for my Lexington client, who currently has a clogged nose.   He has dementia, & has trouble blowing his nose - also has difficulty asking for a tissue, & if i give him a box to take one, he'll put a wad of 20 tissues in his pants' pocket, & they'll end up in the laundry.  Gaah! - a washer full of shredded Kleenex is H***, & the dryer cannot remove all the lint generated, dark clothes especially will hold the fuzzy fibers thru multiple washings for weeks.
An aspirator might make him more comfy, open his airway, & save the household laundry from "tissue damage".
      - terry

E-T-A:
there are newer models of "bulb" type aspirators which unscrew into 2 halves, along the equator; that allows thoro interior cleaning, air-drying, & reassembly. // I'm not sure if they are dishwasher-safe, tho.

 

[Expodog]

take a peek at the article on "best models" -
I don't know if Ur aspirator is one of the all-one-piece molded rubber type, but those cannot be TAKEN APART for cleaning, & can [probly will] grow molds & mildew, unseen, inside.  I would never have thot of that; we had the old red-rubber bulb in our medicine chest all thru my childhood & into my college years, & aside from rinsing with hot H2O & dish-detergent, it was never "cleaned" nor was the interior accessible. 

Maybe Urs is the new-generation of mouth-powered suction, with a clear tube? -- those look very simple & functional, & certainly easy to disassemble & clean. // I'm thinking of getting one for my Lexington client, who currently has a clogged nose.   He has dementia, & has trouble blowing his nose - also has difficulty asking for a tissue, & if i give him a box to take one, he'll put a wad of 20 tissues in his pants' pocket, & they'll end up in the laundry.  Gaah! - a washer full of shredded Kleenex is H***, & the dryer cannot remove all the lint generated, dark clothes especially will hold the fuzzy fibers thru multiple washings for weeks.
An aspirator might make him more comfy, open his airway, & save the household laundry from "tissue damage".
      - terry

E-T-A:
there are newer models of "bulb" type aspirators which unscrew into 2 halves, along the equator; that allows thoro interior cleaning, air-drying, & reassembly. // I'm not sure if they are dishwasher-safe, tho.

Dropped back in for an update. Thank you again Terry for taking the time to help. I obtained a saline nasal spray from our pharmacy in the baby section, and tried it on the dog. He wasn't very impressed but it did seem to help a bit, however it seemed more to hydrate his nasal passages that ease the congestion. I'll keep at it and try again. My aspirator is a simple rubber bulb with a removable nozzle so easy to clean and simple to use. At the moment (6.55am in the U.K.) I've been up with him for 2 hours listening to him chocking and gagging which is highly distressing. My husband was also up with him earlier. 

My friend, who is a vet nurse at a different practice to the one we use, is going to ask her boss for an opinion but cannot offer any further  advice. We may have to go down the road of having a full sinus flush procedure, but that's another anaesthetic and not ideal for a dog of his age. So we are where we are with this. Poor lad is now outside as the fresh air seems to help. I'm looking at salt therapy as suggested by another poster and also at herbal and homeopathic remedies. 

Thank you again for your help and moral support. Much appreciated. 

 

[gypsysmum2]

Any anaesthetic is a risk but they are really safe nowadays.

 

[leashedForLife]

a gas anaesthesia is very safe - 
Isofluorane is commonly used here, may have a different name in the UK / EU, but extremely safe. // They can monitor the depth of sedation & lower the mix ratio of gas to O2 to bring him up; simply shutting-off the gas & adding O2 can have him waking quickly. // Injectables require an antagonist to wake-up with any urgency, & take a LONG time to exit the body / be metabolized. Their after-FX linger for days.

If that's what he needs to breathe & get decent sleep, i'd go for it. Short of sleep is exhausting & debilitates over time.   His heart could give out; his temper will suffer, as he'll be cranky from lack of solid rest. // Really hope U find a solution, even temporary help, soon.
 - terry

 

[gypsysmum2]

If he is as congested as he sounds he may not be a candidate for gas only. Gas may take longer to be absorbed and cleared. On the other hand it may be the best option for his heart etc. Best let the vet decide.

 

[Expodog]

If he is as congested as he sounds he may not be a candidate for gas only. Gas may take longer to be absorbed and cleared. On the other hand it may be the best option for his heart etc. Best let the vet decide.

Hello and thank you for your replies.

I'm afraid I have a very sad update about my lovely old boy. He started to sneeze violently this afternoon which caused him to start haemorrhaging severely from his nose. We managed to get him to the vet, but we felt it was in his best interests to let him go with dignity. We said goodbye to him about an hour ago. The vet thought it was likely a tumour in his sinuses and that was causing the problem, but he's at peace now.

Thank you for taking the time to try to help. I'd also like to thank leashedforlife/Terry for the help and support. You're a lovely lot on here and I hope to be amongst you all again one day. 

RIP Alfie .... fly free little man xx

 

[JoanneF]

I am so sorry to hear this. Nothing any of us say now will help, but I sincerely hope that when you feel able,  you will revisit and let us know how you are.

 

[dogmatize]

This is terrible and shocking news. I am so sorry to hear this. You have been very brave to let Alfiie go {{hugs}}.

 

[gypsysmum2]

How sad for you. Your boy is at peace now and he had the most amazing life so do take some comfort from that if you can.

 

[leashedForLife]

I've been away from the forum a few days, & i am so, so sorry to hear this.   Such a shame. I'm sure he was appreciative of his life with U, & i know U did all U could to try to solve this mystery - that final crisis must have been a shock.
He's no longer struggling for breath, & i'm sure he'll meet U at the Bridge with a madly wagging tail when U cross. Run free, good dog - no more pain.
 - terry