Does anyone have any advice on how to introduce rats to dog?

[C&Hugo]

Yep but the ferrets were relentless
We always introduced the lurcher/terrier pups straightaway to the ferrets. We'd put a dish down with some milk in it,the ferrets and pup would all have a drink together. We would just keep them going together daily,just making sure the ferrets didnt get hold of the pup.

It's pretty nice you got to train terriers and ferrets together! I had one called Marlo when I was little and he killed my hamster They are natural rat-mouse catchers... (ﾉ･_-)☆

 

[C&Hugo]

The first thing to remind ourself when two different species are trying to live together, there are never any guarantees. Look at the challenges humans and dogs have living together and we are two that appear to WANT to be together. So, imagine the challenges with two species living together that were they in the natural world, one would likely be prey and dinner for the other or competition to each other over dinner resources.

Breed of course plays into this. If your dog is a hunting breed (as in actual hunting, not just find it and say there it is or retrieving the game after the human hunter did their thing) the odds are going to be the lowest that you can achieve some safety between your dog and the other species. But even if your dog’s breed isn’t a hunting breed of any kind, there is of course the individual dog. Some dogs regardless of their breed heritage just have that “hunting gene”. So, breed followed by individual is going to be important in figuring this out. Ultimately, we train the dog in front of us, not the breed. Breeds like Terriers, Jindos, Lurcher etc you probably want to just forego having any other pets. Of course, there will always be exceptions to the rule, and I can hear the furious typing now of the “one offs” that were never a problem. However, these are examples of breeds that were bred to actually hunt and this starts you off on a foot that isn’t in your favor for a successful outcome of peaceful co-existence in the same house. It drastically raises the challenges and training skills/knowledge to be successful to any level.

As a starting point, you need some idea of what is going on with your dog when they see the rat/cat/bird/hamster etc that are the other pet(s) in the house. Is your dog just wanting to play? Is your dog one of those dogs that doesn’t care who it is human, mouse, duck, cat etc. it’s just fun to play. If you don’t have another dog play with, anything else will do. They seem to know to be gentle, etc. Or, is your dog triggered to chase? Some dogs will chase the other animal in what is like a spontaneous just for fun lure curse. While many do no harm when they catch the animal, others can “tip” with the over excitement and while odds are, they were not out to kill, still do damage. Or, is your dog actually hunting? If your dog starts looking like a cat on the stalk, odds are you have a hunter. This is not good for the other animal. Actual dog hunting behavior is something once seen, can’t be unseen. You will start to recognize it and you will snicker when someone brags about their dog’s “hunting drive” when all they want to do is just chase/be chased and have fun. Hunting behavior is focused, deliberate, efficient. Not bouncy, silly, boisterous. One way NOT to figure this out is just put them together and see what happens. PLEASE, PLEASE no one take this approach. Some species, such as birds can easily become over stressed and die. Start with breed traits, then how does your dog react to similar other animals when out on a walk.

Regardless, no matter how “innocent” your dog’s behavior is from the dog perspective, we MUST judge it by the effect on the other animal. Even if gentle, friendly curiosity is what the dog is displaying, if the other animal is in clear distress, then it’s not an “innocent”/friendly interaction.

Each case it its own. You can’t assume because someone else with a similar situation had success, you will too. Nor can you assume because someone else had a disaster, you will too. Ultimately, we train the animals in front of us.

Finally, it is VITAL that we NEVER forget that when we place two likely incompatible species into the same living space, it is for OUR “pleasure”, not theirs. Also, never forget that is possible you can never achieve an ideal outcome dog and X species living together as buddies. Or that it is possible you may never even achieve safety where for example, they just ignore each. It just might not be possible given the various individuals involved that co habitation is possible. You MUST be prepared for that, and you MUST be ready to take appropriate action such as rehoming of one of the species involved. Quality of life and safety take precedence over our desire to have the two species living with us.

So that is the human side prep concept prep work.

Training side -

What are you looking to achieve/what is your idealized goal?

What are you expecting your dog to be able to do/not do when the rats are around?

What does the rats being around look like? Loose in the house? Visible in their enclosure?

What is the plan for when you are not able to supervise?

If it looks like any level of a successful and safe cohabitation is NOT possible, what is your plan/what are you willing to do then?

Tell me more about Hugo.

Age?

Current training?

Has Hugo seen the rats? What was the reaction?

What interactions of any kind has Hugo and the rats had so far?

Thanks for this, it was indeed helpful! Hugo is a cocker spaniel (a gun dog) used to retrieve birds for hunters, but, he does seem to enjoy chasing a toy around rapidly whilst a drag it around the carpet. He also really gets into chasing games outdoors. Are these signs of a hunter? He is an 11 week old, so, still teething, and yes, he prefers to bite human jumpers and hands, more than his toys. He has learnt how to sit, come to his name when he's not distracted, and wears a harness attached to a lead no trouble. I've held him up to their cage a few times and it's been the sort of the same each time. The rats are pretty curious, Hugo barely notices them until about 5 minutes of me holding him, he sniffs, ears perked, then after a mintute or 2 he wines and looks at me, then tries to sqirm away. As I said, in the safety of their cage, the little ones are somewhat curious about the creature, but it changes a little when out. I like to take them onto the sofa with me while Hugo is sleeping. They potter around, but, I can tell they know the dog smell and are sniffing around. One particular evening Hugo had floped in his bed (which was in the living room), so I decided to let the ratties have some time out. I put them on the sofa where they just pottered around as usual. All was fine... well until. Until Hugo awoke. He's usually very tired after waking up, so I wasn't so bothered. But he jumped up and put his front paws on the sofa. He didn't at all notice the rats, as they were behind a cushion hiding. He barked. The rats absolutely HATED it they were shaking they're hearts were beating. After a while they calmed down and came to the edge of the sofa. Hugo slowly out his paws up. The two touched noses, before Fang ran away. Hugo did not jump onto the sofa to get her he simply plodded away to see my dad. Thanks for the help!

-C&Hugo

 

[lurcherman]

My black saluki x might have been ok but who knows, my brindle geez he would have ripped the stinky rat apart, I enjoyed a bit of ratting, hell they squeal, from a hunting side a good rat is a dead one .

 

[Hemlock]

I wouldn't even consider it. It's a huge risk. Dogs are predators and rats are prey. It might work for some dogs and some rats, but it's far more likely to cause huge stress to each. I respectfully suggest you have places where the rats live and to which your dog doesn't have access, and places where the dog is and the rats don't go. As humans, it's up to us to choose incompatible species or not, and if we do, to arrange their lives so that they are as stress-free as possible.

You sound a caring owner, so I hope whatever you choose works well for you.

 

[Flobo]

I do have to agree with Hemlock, especially as your rats have all ready been freaked out by Hugo barking.. I was very lucky with my Jake, he was a very chilled out and well trained dog and my rats were not in the least bit bothered by him, well they got a bit fed up by being licked and groomed by him at times, but that was understandable! I wouldn't take a chance, if an accident happens, you can't turn back the clock and make it un - happen... now, like I said, with my ferrets, I have ferret time separate to dog time and it's just about getting into a new routine of making time for both.

 

[C&Hugo]

My black saluki x might have been ok but who knows, my brindle geez he would have ripped the stinky rat apart, I enjoyed a bit of ratting, hell they squeal, from a hunting side a good rat is a dead one .

lol but you see, my rats are aparently fancy rats.

 

[JacksDad]

“We should NOT become so preoccupied with if we can, that we didn’t stop to think if we should.”
Ian Malcolm, while evaluating Jurassic park…paraphrased of course.

The more I think about this, the more the simplest, safest course of action is what Hemlock suggests. I can think of several things that would complement the suggestion, but Hugo doesn’t sound like he can even respond to basic name, sit, down etc. which makes perfect sense he is a puppy, only 11 weeks old. Without those typical and common skills being in place, he isn’t even capable of responding to any additional training I might suggest.

If you were my client, the goal would be to train Hugo to NOT seek the rats, to disengage. Then build in safety behaviors. The most reliable recall possible. A drop into a down/stay. Rat means look at you. Leave it without hesitation. Drop what is in your mouth…not just let me take it, but drop it and back up.

When you want rat time, Hugo is in a crate, xpen, or behind a baby gate. They time share you. Rats have their time, Hugo has his.

 

[C&Hugo]

I wouldn't even consider it. It's a huge risk. Dogs are predators and rats are prey. It might work for some dogs and some rats, but it's far more likely to cause huge stress to each. I respectfully suggest you have places where the rats live and to which your dog doesn't have access, and places where to dog is and the rats don't go. As humans, it's up to us to choose incompatible species or not, and if we do, to arrange their lives so that they are as stress-free as possible.

You sound a caring owner, so I hope whatever you choose works well for you.[/QUOTE/\

I really hope it does go well, but, I don't want to cause any stress for each of them. I guess it is the hard truth that rats and dogs aren't really meant to live together. If I can't get any interaction whithout stress and

“We should NOT become so preoccupied with if we can, that we didn’t stop to think if we should.”
Ian Malcolm, while evaluating Jurassic park…paraphrased of course.

The more I think about this, the more the simplest, safest course of action is what Hemlock suggests. I can think of several things that would complement the suggestion, but Hugo doesn’t sound like he can even respond to basic name, sit, down etc. which makes perfect sense he is a puppy, only 11 weeks old. Without those typical and common skills being in place, he isn’t even capable of responding to any additional training I might suggest.

If you were my client, the goal would be to train Hugo to NOT seek the rats, to disengage. Then build in safety behaviors. The most reliable recall possible. A drop into a down/stay. Rat means look at you. Leave it without hesitation. Drop what is in your mouth…not just let me take it, but drop it and back up.

When you want rat time, Hugo is in a crate, xpen, or behind a baby gate. They time share you. Rats have their time, Hugo has his.

True, true. What I am getting alot is that it's best not to let them together, from multiple people. I will train him more and try when he's at least 6 months, but if it doesn't work out, I guess I'll have to live.