Directional Seeding

[IanGerman]

I sent out this poll to all Harvel members and have had a reasonable feedback. I fully realise that a very small minority of the racing population visit these pages and therefore any vote is far from representative of the racing community as a whole.

But if there are more than 10 replies - that is still more than the totals who voted in this proposal in the first place.

I have tried not to be biased one way or the other in the replies, so hopefully there should be a good take up of this. Or not!

 

[June Jonigk]

There are lots of racers who read K9, but not many who actually post. Now they have to register - we can all see who they are!!!

 

[Mark Roberts]

now now June :cheers:

 

[Nigel]

So at the moment i've got that at nearly 85% are against implementing seeding at Championships this year

 

[longdog]

I've been out of racing for a while but I think seeding is a bad idea.It doesn't always work with greyhound racing.In my experience the first racing whippet I had 20years ago always ran to the left (red trap),OK on bends,but this was due mainly to my inexperience when I trained her as pup.(Wonder if I'll get a reply to this one ?!!)

 

[IanGerman]

I've been out of racing for a while but I think seeding is a bad idea.It doesn't always work with greyhound racing.In my experience the first racing whippet I had 20years ago always ran to the left (red trap),OK on bends,but this was due mainly to my inexperience when I trained her as pup.(Wonder if I'll get a reply to this one ?!!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Are you saying that you now CAN train a pup/dog to run where YOU want it to go, rather than following its own instincts? As far as I know you'd be the first who could!

btw - slightly more than 50% vote option 4 so far which I have to admit is slightly surprising.

 

[June Jonigk]

Why are you surprised Ian? Didn't you say people were against it when you started back racing at Harvel? I admire you for giving everyone a chance to have a vote.

Looks pretty convincing to me that it will be more trouble than it's worth. Like you say Ian - not so many people have voted, but a damn site more than at the talk-in!

I still can't see it ever happening - no one really knows what the procedure will be. Will each dog have to be checked by a committee member from the WCRA? Or will it be left to racing manager and secretary? Is it fair to put the responsibility on these people to decide? Will there be arguements over whether it crossed within 6 strides or 7!

There are still so many unanswered questions. As far as I know, new rules can only be brought in at the Whippet Club AGM, so I can't see it happening at the Championships.

I will be surprised, and very disappointed in the committee if it does As far as I can see this has been voted for by people whose dogs won't run straight, and are hoping to gain an advantage, or those few who want to wrap their dogs in cotton wool in case they hurt themselves, and shouldn't be taking part in the sport to begin with.

Blimey! I must get off my hobby horse - I need a cup of tea!

Edited to say - what was the Harvel result Ian - are you allowed to tell us?

Edited again to correct my spelling!!

 

[June Jonigk]

Hi Mr Chappell

Glad to see you're reading this thread. Have you voted yet?!!

 

[Strike Whippets]

As far as I can see this has been voted for by people whose dogs won't run straight, and are hoping to gain an advantage, or those few who want to wrap their dogs in cotton wool in case they hurt themselves, and shouldn't be taking part in the sport to begin with.

Must admit that I am in favour of seeding ........Even though non of my present dogs cross but I am probably guilty of wrapping them in cotton wool as you said due to the fact that racing is a bit of fun but my dog's well being is certainly more important ...........I have been known to withdraw my dogs when they have been drawn with dogs that I am unhappy racing against ........Dogs in a hunting pack or living in the wild wouldn't bang/hit another dog whilst hunting (and this is what we are simulating isn't it ??) due to risk of injury to themselve's........BTW I do free run my lot .......as I've said befor they are well adjusted pet's, but I don't think that because I am overly careful when racing my dog's against known crosser's or banger's that this should be a bad thing that should disqualify me from racing my lot safely :unsure: .........

As for people who's dog's do cross ........I don't think that they are trying to gain an unfare advantage ........If as people say "it's 4 dog's running up a field", then surely if ALL of the dog's are running in a straight line (as the one's that cross will have the side they favour), then wouldn't it be the fastest dog that win's ??

 

[IanGerman]

As for people who's dog's do cross ........I don't think that they are trying to gain an unfare advantage ........If as people say "it's 4 dog's running up a field", then surely if ALL of the dog's are running in a straight line (as the one's that cross will have the side they favour), then wouldn't it be the fastest dog that win's ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Correct.

Well I have been getting the Harvel replies spasmodically, but not a single one vote for the first option.

By the way June ... all secretaries have got the seeding forms to use THIS season - so much for it getting past the Whippet Club. Although I am in favour of seeding in principle, this seems to be a half-arsed measure without having been fully thought through. There are just so many what-if's that I can see it turning into a fiasco, and the sport certainly doesn't need that.

 

[chris oflaherty]

As for people who's dog's do cross ........I don't think that they are trying to gain an unfare advantage ........If as people say "it's 4 dog's running up a field", then surely if ALL of the dog's are running in a straight line (as the one's that cross will have the side they favour), then wouldn't it be the fastest dog that win's ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Correct.

Well I have been getting the Harvel replies spasmodically, but not a single one vote for the first option.

By the way June ... all secretaries have got the seeding forms to use THIS season - so much for it getting past the Whippet Club. Although I am in favour of seeding in principle, this seems to be a half-arsed measure without having been fully thought through. There are just so many what-if's that I can see it turning into a fiasco, and the sport certainly doesn't need that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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[ChrisBishop]

Personnally i do not know what all the fuss is about .... :- " ....as I understand it , it is only going to be TRIALED at the 2 straight champs this year .... How many dogs do you honestly think are going to be seeded ... IMO I think very few as all club secretaries and race managers need WCRA officials to also sign stating that the dog goes right / left and for some small clubs who never see wcra officials how can that be done effectively ....come on people you all moan when the wcra do not listen to you and then when they do you moan at that ....I personally say lets suck it and see .. :thumbsup:

 

[Nigel]

Personnally i do not know what all the fuss is about ....  :- "  ....come on people you all moan when the wcra do not listen to you and then when they do you moan at that  ....I personally say lets suck it and see .. :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I don't see any moaning but I do see a genuine concern that this change hasn't been properly thought out, hasn't been discussed with those people it affects and those people haven't been adequately informed about the 'trial'. As Ian says there is a good chance this will end up a fiasco and the vote here has been fairly constant at around 80% not wanting this to be implemented at the straight champs. The vote by the few at the talk in wasn't to have this tried at the champs - so it really is about time someone started seeing some sense here and for the majority view to be heard.

 

[June Jonigk]

Well said Nigel :thumbsup:

How can anything be "tried out" at a prestigious event like the Champs?

The WCRA have worked hard to improve things over the past few years, surely they would not "try something out" at a Championship event!

Why do people always think that because we are discussing things on this forum, that we are all moaning? It is a healthy debate, and there is no reason why we should not have our say - you don't have to agree - just allow people to have minds of their own.

It would be a strange world if we all agreed about everything.

 

[longdog]

Ian German,

You obviousley have a problem reading English!I did not say I could train a dog to run where I want it to.I have an advantage over you as I remember you from years ago but you don't know me!You have a beard and dark glasses-say no more!What I said was the dog running to the left was down to me,She was 25lb and when I trialled her I always put her in the red trap,when she ran at :rant: the club she always ran off scratch,do you now understand me?

:rant:

 

[IanGerman]

Correct Longdog - you know my name because I don't hide behind an alias. You don't know ME though - never had a beard EVER.

I have fewer problems reading English than apparently you do in writing it ...

In my experience the first racing whippet I had 20years ago always ran to the left (red trap),OK on bends,but this was due mainly to my inexperience when I trained her as pup

The phrase "due to my inexperience" is the relevant bit ... by implication it says that now you ARE experienced that situation would not occur - hence my surprise.

Hint: say what you mean, mean what you say. Nuff sed

btw June - I got a Harvel returned poll today IN FAVOUR - the first one. There are a surprising number of those in the above poll too - well more than would be expected judging from comments.

 

[IanGerman]

I wrote to the WCRA regarding this poll and with the results of my poll of Harvel members ... this is the gist of it.

Website: A - 7 B - 2 C - 4 D - 14 Total votes 27

Harvel: A - 1 B - 1 C - 4 D - 8 Total votes 14

A = Plans are fine; B = OK but test at club level first; C = OK in principle but needs more consideration and consultation with racers in general; D = We don't want this, abandon these plans)

There are differing conclusions that can be drawn from this but the one constant that can't be ignored is that the majority of people who voted "D" outnumber by almost 100% the other categories added together.

Another less obvious fact is that the Harvel vote went out to 41 people but only 14 cared enough to vote, which suggests that the whole idea of directional seeding is being implemented on behalf of a small minority, and the greater racing population couldn't care less one way or the other.

And while it could be argued therefore that if the majority of racers therefore don't actually mind this new idea it is ok to to implement it, you can bet your bottom dollar they WILL find their voices if it affects their own racing.

Further: Since I wrote this letter 2 more replies came in from Harvel members, both voting D

By the way I DID say that I would be publishing these results later, just in case someone should feel that I breeched some kind of confidentiality etiquette

 

[June Jonigk]

Well done for doing this research Ian. It is obvious now that the majority of racers do not agree with directional seeding. I have yet to hear of anyone who has had their dog seeded.

 

[Judy]

Thanks for posting the results Ian. Its notable that the results of both polls came out about the same.

 

[Garry Comber]

I WONDER HOW YOU WOULD FILL OUT THE PROGRAMME FOR THE SECOND ROUND. IF DOGS ARE SEEDED YOUR DOG MIGHT NOT BE IN THE TRAP ( OR COAT) THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT?