Defining A Whippet

[dazgail]

I would nt expect it to be a problem to any working lurcher :thumbsup:

Me neither, but from experience not everyone who works their lurchers takes the time to properly train their lurchers to do a blind stay, retrieve and jump. I bet this forum has lots of people who have bought working lurchers in the past that couldn't complete all of the above tasks.

I agree with Rodders if it generates enough interest to have it as another event at the lurcher shows.

Darren

 

[Nellie]

I would nt expect it to be a problem to any working lurcher

:lol: Then the comp could become,'Spot the working lurcher' at a show.Know of a few obedience trained dogs in the past,that haven't done any work in the field. :- Doesn't take that much to train a collie cross to do all obedience work,but doesn't mean it's worked on live game ? At the end of the day an obedience competition is another way of showing what a lurcher can do.Just as it is racing it behind a lure to simulate it chasing live game.Leave the Master McGrath for the racing.I think Albert as said he's looking into doing some form of obedience comps in the future.Think it would all depend on how much interest would be shown in folk taking part

Fair comments rodders and daz I reckon theres more dogs race that have never get to see live quarry in the field :thumbsup: include simulated bag chasing with some bales or hurdles to negotiate in the course for authenticity,walk to heel of the lead, a stay, then a retrieve followed by racing to conclude culminating in an overall winner with the highest points from these tasks

 

[AlbertJ]

OK Albert you've got several replies to your opening post :thumbsup: and no acknowledgement from yourself since. :thumbsup: So what would you define as a lurcher after reading these replies? Please :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

No reply from Albert :unsure: are nt the replies to your liking Albert?

You were told that this would be the outcome very soon after you launched your "Master McGrath Challenge" and what good has it done to raise the profile of lurchers? As you stated thats what you wanted to do with this competition putting something back into lurchers?

Nellie,

Sorry I haven't been back on the forum to corrrespond except to arrange a little sponsorship for a show run for a very worthy cause. I decided to take a few days off and enjoy training my own dogs!

The whippet debate does not have a lot to do with the Master McGrath which of course did generate a great deal of positive publicity for lurchers and will start again with the firsr heat being run at the Irish Game & Country Fair at Birr Castle on Saturday 27th August. Our definition of a lurcher for the Master Mc Grath is as it has always been any crossbred greyhound. We have taken the point that tightly bred 'racing lurcher' types have an advantage over other outcrosses and we are looking at elite and novice racing classes analagous to the Novice/Open gundog tests and other suggestions.

Regarding the whippet controversy I have not only read many of the useful suggestions on the forums but also consulted widely with people who race. I am meeting the Rosscrea Club next week to finalise arrangements for Birr and at that stage I will post how we will deal with whippet racing at Birr and in future at our events at Ballywalter and Shanes Castle.

Albert

Your definition of a lurcher is incorrect Albert, a lurcher is defined as a running dogxworking dog ie collie,terrier or even gundog :thumbsup: a hound xhound is a longdog NOT a lurcher :angry:

Why consult the people who race?and not the working lurcher owners? These are the people that have the dogs your trying to promote

I've asked before why you dont race your retrievers at trials?

Suggestion Albert carry on with the Master McGrath by all means but include in it a bit of retrieving? a blinde stay? and a jump/obstacle to go over and mark them overall to get a working winner, a working lurcher should be able to do these disciplines in a days work :blink:

Nellie,

You are correct I was responding on the basis that there were claims that some people were running pure bred greyhounds - and I was saying that what we consider that a greyhound cross is a lurcher. You are of course correct that any long dog cross can be considered a lurcher.

I have effectively have 'raced 'my retrievers in scurries - my first golden won quite a few including in Scotland but if I have one good enough I do aim at tests and then trials. I debut my latest one next week!

We have been working on some ideas for obedience demos/ competitions so perhaps next year you will be able to show what you can do!

Albert

I Stated that a lurcher and a longdog are 2 distinct types, a lurcher is bred to work :thumbsup: a longdog is bred to run due to both parents being hounds. Now correct me if Im wrong but was nt the Master McGrath mean't to raise the profile of lurchers?

Well done on your success in the scurries :thumbsup: Once again feel free to correct me scurries involve dummies and working dogs retrieve them as they would retrieve game out in the field? Thus showing what they are capable of doing out in the field, not really a straight race to find the fastest dog after a bag/lure

So will these obedience demos/competitions be incorperated into the Master McGrath to raise the profile and show that lurhers are not one trick ponys

Good Luck next week :thumbsup:

Now we are starting to disagree again. I think your definition of lircher is too specific. Also a scurry is a speed event which tests the dogs natural ability to do what it was bred for but at speed. As such , in my opinion, it is more analagous to the Master Mc Grath - where a dog expresses its natural instinct ro chase something. Gundog tests are more based on ability to retrieve, steadiness and handlsvility - much as you are talking about for lurcher obedience. As someone said it does not necessarily show that a dog is a worker - the majority of test dogs do not go on to be field trial dogs or be good at game.

As I said we are looking at a number of suggestions for events other than racing and showing and I know other organisers are doing similar. BUT the Master McGrath will remain a speed event for lurchers.

I am happy to discuss with you , you starting something of the nature that you suggest at one of the fairs.

Albert

 

[dazgail]

I would nt expect it to be a problem to any working lurcher

:lol: Then the comp could become,'Spot the working lurcher' at a show.Know of a few obedience trained dogs in the past,that haven't done any work in the field. :- Doesn't take that much to train a collie cross to do all obedience work,but doesn't mean it's worked on live game ? At the end of the day an obedience competition is another way of showing what a lurcher can do.Just as it is racing it behind a lure to simulate it chasing live game.Leave the Master McGrath for the racing.I think Albert as said he's looking into doing some form of obedience comps in the future.Think it would all depend on how much interest would be shown in folk taking part

Fair comments rodders and daz I reckon theres more dogs race that have never get to see live quarry in the field :thumbsup: include simulated bag chasing with some bales or hurdles to negotiate in the course for authenticity,walk to heel of the lead, a stay, then a retrieve followed by racing to conclude culminating in an overall winner with the highest points from these tasks

At Shanes Castle approximately 60-70 lurchers competed in the straight racing. Thats a big statement to make that most of these dogs never get to see live quarry in the field!!

If there was an event run to include all of the above on a points system, which in very unlikely, i reckon those who win at the racing would still win overall as their owners would train their dogs up to do the tasks. Just my opinion.

 

[masta]

Is this a thread re "Defining a Whippet" or is it another blatant self promotion of a range of game fairs based in Northern Ireland?? sick of hearing about it now the general consensus is that the racing is a complete shambles and after reading this and other associated threads one can understand why

 

[AlbertJ]

Is this a thread re "Defining a Whippet" or is it another blatant self promotion of a range of game fairs based in Northern Ireland?? sick of hearing about it now the general consensus is that the racing is a complete shambles and after reading this and other associated threads one can understand why

It would appear that you not only make rather silly generalisations but you haven't read the first post on this topic or any of the positive suggestions for resolving a problem that had arisen amongst the whippet racers. If someone raises a problem on the forum relating to one of our events than I try to deal with it by making suggestions and getting feedback.

As you are no doubt aware there is racing virtually every weekend and a number of people quite rightly take it seriously as their sport - this is increasing in popularity - some shambles! .

In addition our fairs at Ballywalter and Shanes Castle attracted record numbers of terriers, whippets and teriers and I have no doubt our fair at Birr on the 27th & 28th August will be no different. The 'general consensus' as expressed by the record number of people voting with their feet and attending and exhibiting at our fairs is that we are getting it right. And how do we do that :

1. By investing heavily in prizes, judges and new competitions.

2. By offering the public good value for money - this year the two Norther Fairs for the price of one and at Birr two days for the price of one.

3. By attracting good quality exhibitors.

4. By listening to positive ideas/suggestions from the public and a wide range of country sports enthusiasts including of course lurcher, terrier & whippet enthusiasts.

5. By working positively with all the major sporting organisations especially NARGC, FISSTA and CAI.

6. By promoting our fairs accurately and extensively.

7. And we DON'T EVEN IGNORE those who appear to have little positive to say about anything!

Albertj

 

[Nellie]

Now we are starting to disagree again. I think your definition of lircher is too specific. Also a scurry is a speed event which tests the dogs natural ability to do what it was bred for but at speed. As such , in my opinion, it is more analagous to the Master Mc Grath - where a dog expresses its natural instinct ro chase something. Gundog tests are more based on ability to retrieve, steadiness and handlsvility - much as you are talking about for lurcher obedience. As someone said it does not necessarily show that a dog is a worker - the majority of test dogs do not go on to be field trial dogs or be good at game.

As I said we are looking at a number of suggestions for events other than racing and showing and I know other organisers are doing similar. BUT the Master McGrath will remain a speed event for lurchers.

I am happy to discuss with you , you starting something of the nature that you suggest at one of the fairs.

Albert

My definition of a lurcher is exact.

So a scurry is a speed event testing the dogs natural ability,hunting up and retrieving what has been shot at speed IYO

But the lurcher in the Master McGrath runs in a short straight line :unsure: what kind of quarry is that supposed to imitate, that does nt turn, dodge and uses obstacles to escape its pursuers, what a working lurcher would be expected to do out in the field. not neccesarily lurcher obedience just doing what they should be doing when your working alongside a lurcher :thumbsup:

BUT the Master McGrath will remain a speed event for lurchers. Glad to hear your taking on board the longdogs are not lurchers

ps Albert if you were asked to promote Guide dogs for the Blind would you race them? (w00t)

 

[storm1]

just seen a whippet at stud in EDRD kc reg 41pounds in weight 221/2tts

whats the limit with the kennel club defining a whippet

seen smaller whippet/ghds :thumbsup: