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colour discriminate

dessie said:
Blimey Lyd, that's very deep and meaningful!!! 
I agree that construction and movement comes first when you are judging, then temperament (making allowance for age/venue) and then colour BUT if I had two dogs that were equally good in the above depts then I would put up what I prefer in colour.
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Agree with you completely Dessie,if when judging,I did have 2 dogs,whom I liked their construction,movement, balance and elegance equally,and they both stood out to me,a solid coloured whippet,fawn,blue or black would prevail, over a brindle or parti colour.

I have never had to make this choice though,maybe 'cos I haven't judged many Whippets.But, I have always found that one dog,regardless of the colour,would stand out more to me,than the others.There would be something on the whipp's general appearance,or the construction,movement,balance or elegance,that on the day,would appear better than the others.

As for Jon from Down Under, I feel it is a shame,you only have black whippets as one type.Of course,strictly speaking,there should be only one type of whippet,regardless of colour.Over here,our blacks that are shown,are all different types,just as much as the other whippets come in different types.They range from being short coupled,smaller dogs,to being longer,ground covering dogs.

I do think,that Guy and Bean are a similar type.But as they are father and son,they should be.I haven't yet,spotted another black in the showring with us,that is the same type as them.I've added a photo,as an example of similar typed blacks,and when I've rumaged,I'll post a photo of my black bitch,who is a different type of black.

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I haven't got a photo of Coco,on my comp.I'll take one later today,to show the difference between 2 of my blacks, regarding type.

with the photo I have posted,of Bean and Guy,Bean is still maturing,and not standing in a show pose,so it doesn't demonstrate the type similarity between them,as well as it should.

Lyd
 
Lydia. Yes our blacks are of a "type" here. Sad part is too that many people that have them only breed amoung them selves.

The 2 that you posted, the one on the right is more like what we see here. The one on the left is an eye opener. That looks like the kind I would have. More flowing lines & chest.

Thank you for you pics & comments.
 
Cartman said:
Sad part is too that many people that have them only breed amoung them selves.
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That IS the sad part - australians have been colour prejudiced against blacks (& black& white) for way too long IMO and I believe that the people that have had blacks have been pretty much forced to breed amongst themselves because no-one else had the courage to include blacks in their lines ... or perhaps wouldn't let them use their top stud dogs on their black bitches. :unsure:
 
Lydia said:
Of course,strictly speaking,there should be only one type of whippet,regardless of colour.
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I, personally, think too much is made of the word 'type'. We are taught that breed type should come first and foremost, but what is type. It is those indefinable qualities that cannot be measured or quantified but that you learn by looking at different animals.

A breed standard can only be so much use in describing the proportions of a certain breed otherwise it will get bogged down with too much detail. You learn what a breed is by observation and familiarisation. When you look at a line up of Whippets (and I will use these as an example but it could be any breed), you don't immediately wonder what they are, you KNOW they are Whippets so, therefore, they must all possess breed 'type'. Bu,t they can all be variations on that 'type' because they have been bred by different people who all see things differently. So from there you have to analyse them to determine what YOU think is the ideal breed 'type'. It is only your interpretation of the standard. Some of us might think/see the same and others might see something totally different. Who is say who is wrong and who is right??? It is only what we see if our mind's eye and, therefore, there can never be only one breed 'type'.
 
From the photo , i think he looks a nice dog . do you show him BJ?
 
Hi B J, just like to say your dog is quite beautiful, two of our dogs are mainly black. We cant go out for walks without somebody telling us how lovely they are. I love all colours of whippets, but people who do not know the breed ALWAYS make really nice comments about our black dogs :)
 
Thanks for posting that pic of Bean Bj,it shows his length far better than the pic I posted.

I did take some pics of Coco tonight,in a show pose,to demonstrate my black bitch who is shorter coupled.Unfortunately,although she held a stand for me perfectly,the stand was a bad one,she couldn't understand why I wanted her to stand,so she roached her back up, so that she looked like some deformed miniature black camel :wacko: .

I'll try and get one outside tomorrow.

Occasionaly Jax,Bj's black does attend shows.Bj doesn't enjoy showing,but, because I do,she kindly enters him,I handle him in the ring.Thanks to Bj's excellent hard work,he is always in gleaming condition,and shows perfectly.At the majority of shows he's attended,he's been shortlisted and placed.Both at Champ level,and Open.

He is far easier to handle and show than his father,and his dad adores him and is as proud of him, as I am.I will always be indebted to Bj,for bringing him to shows for me,and letting me have the fun.

Lyd
 
BeeJay said:
So as a result of the black whippet owners not being able to use top stud dogs you end up with blacks looking like this one.  I am upset by the fact that he has been judged by some people on this board on one photo that I did not know was being put on here.  And therefore have felt the need to try to defend a dog that I love and value very much.  If that makes me a stupid person for doing this then so be it.
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I'm sorry if it was my comment that upset you BJ - but I was not referring to your boy - I was referring to the situation in Australia.

In the show world here blacks have long been disregarded by the masses - judges and exhibitors/breeders alike. For years in Australia there have only been very small "pockets" of people who persisted with the black breeding. And yes, as Cartman said, most of that breeding has been kept within the same lines. However I tend to think that that was not necessarily by choice.

When you are confronted by commonly espoused theories from the masses like "all blacks are fine boned" "you'll never win with a black" "you can't get a good black" - it's no wonder that the people who had them were forced to breed consistently to their own lines and were not able to branch out and incorporate some of the top winning lines of the time with their own. If the above quotes are indicative of the way most people felt who would have allowed their precious top winning dogs to be used on a black which they felt was inferior?

We could have much more 'depth' (as a general term) in our blacks now if they had not been relegated to the back blocks for so long.
 
JAX said:
From the photo , i think he looks a nice dog . do you show him BJ?
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Thanks for the nice comments.

Yes he has been shown Jax. Not often 'cause I spend most of my competative time racing. Though unfortunately not Bean as he's too heavy at over 32lbs. Lyd kindly handles him in the ring for me as I don't like going in. By today's standards he's not a tall dog in the ring standing at around 20.5" at the shoulder. Despite the heavy muscling a lot of breed specialists have liked him and there have only been a few shows where he hasn't been in the line up.

Right that's enough and as far as I'll ever go with boasting about my dogs. Except to say that both him and his waggly eared blue son (who moved like a dream in the individual movement) both were placed at SWW last Saturday. Lydia really earned her mini eggs handling the little blue person - thank you Lydia. His 7 month old black son was BP and G4 at an open show the previous week. :wub:

Personally I think that Lydia should take her beautiful blue bitch to Taraly Malcom X as he has looked wonderful in every photo that I've seen of him. Although of course it is best to check out movement and actually put your hands on a dog to be able to judge it properly as photos can be so misleading.
 
Hmmm, thanks for the thought Bj,from what I remember of Taraly Malcolm x,he is a nice looking whippet.Malin's pups were lovely (you did use him didn't you Malin).

But, I love Bean,Malcolm would have to really take my breath away,in the flesh so to speak,and me prefer his qualities to Bean's qualities,for me to approach his owners asking to use him.

Thank-you for admiring Guy again Malin,I personally,do not like that actual photo of Guy much,and, if I didn't know/own him,and saw him looking like that,I personally,would not think much of him.

Lyd
 
Lydia said:
Thank-you for admiring Guy again Malin,I personally,do not like that actual photo of Guy much
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I have seen other pictures of Guy :)

Lydia said:
Hmmm, thanks for the thought Bj,from what I remember of Taraly Malcolm x,he is a nice looking whippet.Malin's pups were lovely (you did use him didn't you Malin).
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Yes, my 3 blue pups are sired by him. I'm very pleased with them and "Spike" actually takes my breath away in the flesh... so much that I flew down to France between Christmas and New Years and mated my brindle bitch. I also really like his black daughter pictured above, keeping my fingers crossed for one just like her.

Added bonus of using a french dog is all the wonderful food (and wine etc.) :cheers:
 
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Very shiny, black dog, Malin. It's a bit difficult to tell his size though 'cus his feet have disappeared in the grass :D As a matter of interest, how tall is he ?
 
Apologies Malin,Bj pointed out to me,that Spike is Taraly Malcolm X.

Not that I'm thick or anything :- " , somewhere I've got a pic of him,probably younger than in your pic,and he does look stunning.

I wont be flitting over to France though,despite the food and wine.Please post some pics,of your new pups,when they arrive.

I think I've seen pics, from 2 litters that Spike has sired.The pups looked very promising,plus they came in my fave colours.Thanks for posting the pic of his daughter,it is nice to see an adult,that he's sired.How old is she ? Is she shown ? Has she been as well placed as her father ?

I'm now dreading what other pics of Guy you've seen !!!!!!

The only decent pics of him,got sent to prospective brides owners and never returned to me.So I'm left with the ones were he usually looks horrendous :x (w00t) .

Lyd
 
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