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Calcium Oxidate Stones

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davelympany

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hi guys,

not sure if any of you remember our bitch belle, who had a calcium oxidate stone removed from her bladder a few weeks ago.

She is doing very well thank goodness, and she is now on the special urinary food.

My question, and it would have to be answered i `spose by someone who knows what they are talking about, being realistic is that well surely if the stone was in her bladder, which is a direct organ from what she is DRINKING as opposed to eating? I can appriciate that her diet is very important and she will remain on the special food.

But what I have been wondering is if she is drinking TAP water, would this maybe be adding to the problem of the tap water being too rich in all the wrong contents to form another stone?

Would giving her bottled mineral water be any better or is there an additive to tap water that may reduce the risk of another stone forming??

Just an idea as i am sure some of you will agree.

Dave
 
Hi !

The answer to your question is quite complex! The Kidneys are filtration systems which do produce urine to be excreted by the bladder, but there is filtration and reabsorbsion of nutrients from the blood taking place too thats why diet plays a big part. Stones form in the kidneys and bladder when urinary constituents normally in solution are precipitated. Causes can be dehydration, pH of the urine (nomal acid filtrate becomes alkaline) infection (alters pH of urine) and tumours (DONT PANIC)! Plenty of water available Tap or otherwise will aid filtration. Hope this helps!

Artemis :))
 
Not really an answer to your question, but our girls get filtered water. We use a Brita filter and filter it all before we give it to them. We live in a VERY hard water area, and it can be quite hard on their systems.

As for your question - you're not entirely correct about the bladder being directly from what has been drunk. It's all liquid - and liquid can be taken from food as well as drink, so it's as much what she's eating as it is what she's drinking, hence a diet made to help prevent it as it has the things she needs and doesnt' have the things she doesn't.

Wendy
 
Thanks for your reply,

Why would a tumour cause a stone to form? Thats not a concern though, she had x rays and when she had the op to remove the stone anything amis would have been detected, just wondered why a tumour would cause sulvite or oxidate stones?

On Wendys post, we may start giving her bottled water, we live in Anglesey north wales, not sure what the water is here, but i`m gonna give our water board a ring to find out!

Dont water filters just get rid of any baddies in tap water and not affect the hard/softness of water??

Dave
 
The filters filter out the limescale (which causes hard water). My kettle speaks to that. Have never had to descale it since using filtered water. Before using filtered water had to descale it within the first week we used it down here. Went straight to filtered after that. And much cheaper than bottled in the long run.

Wendy
 
chelynnah said:
The filters filter out the limescale (which causes hard water).  My kettle speaks to that.  Have never had to descale it since using filtered water.  Before using filtered water had to descale it within the first week we used it down here.  Went straight to filtered after that.  And much cheaper than bottled in the long run.
Wendy

Click to expand...

Hi,

Our kettle is quite clean inside after 2 years of use, no limscale, so I would be right in guessing its fairly soft water? is that a good thing?

I googled Calcium Oxilate and tumours and now i`am worried as there was lots to link the two......this darn internet wish i never had bothered now! Think I will be giving the vets a ring tomorow! They never said anything about tumours just about diet......

Dave
 
Pressure caused by tumours in the kidney or adjacent to the urinary tract may restrict the flow of urine. This may cause ischaemia and necrosis( death of tissue) or predispose to infection. Necrotic debris and tumour fragments provide a focul point for the deposit of solutes in the urine, therefore formation of stones may occur.

Dont worry too much about tumours!
 
davelympany said:
chelynnah said:
The filters filter out the limescale (which causes hard water).  My kettle speaks to that.  Have never had to descale it since using filtered water.  Before using filtered water had to descale it within the first week we used it down here.  Went straight to filtered after that.  And much cheaper than bottled in the long run.
Wendy

Click to expand...

Hi,

Our kettle is quite clean inside after 2 years of use, no limscale, so I would be right in guessing its fairly soft water? is that a good thing?

I googled Calcium Oxilate and tumours and now i`am worried as there was lots to link the two......this darn internet wish i never had bothered now! Think I will be giving the vets a ring tomorow! They never said anything about tumours just about diet......

Dave

Click to expand...
I only WISH I was in a softer water area. Yes, no limescale is good!

Don't worry too much about tumours and stuff. Sometimes I think the more we learn about potential stuff the more we just worry ourselves to death. It may just be a one off, or it may be that you need to be more careful with your girl's diet now.

If you have a good relationship with your vet you'll be fine :D

Wendy
 
The results of the stone has come back from the lab and will know more tomorow.

After what I have just read about why tumours can cause stones, its put my mind at rest as I know that its defo NOT the reason why she had a stone, the vet had a good look around while she removed the stone and she had an x ray, its just a simple case of diet, thats why shes on the urinary food.....

I think also if she had a tumour she would be quite poorly and not eating generally ill this has been going on for around 6 months or so......since she had the op she is florishing so much and bounding `round everywhere and eating really well...

will let you know what the stone test say tomorow

Dave
 
Hi,

Update on belle,

Got the results of the stone was a Sulvite calcious (i think thats how its spelt!) Vets advice, just stay on same food, (urinary).

Dont know why they thought it was a Clacium oxilate, any way whats the difference?? lol

dave
 
I'd presume the path report indicates what specific salts have sedimented to create a stone?

Ex partner had kidney stones, definately diet related, he drank very little and then it was mainly tea, they do advise sufferers to avoid drinking tea or dairy produce as this is supposodely contributory to their formation. Drinking copious amounts of water is beneficial anyway because it flushes out the stones when their in a small crystalline state and encourages frequent urination. By drinking little and excreting little fluid it results in a higher salt concentration and during long periods of urination i.e. sleep, the salts settle and then sediment collects together to form crystals which bond together creating a stone. Going on this theory on their formation, the more dilute the concentration of urine is and the more frequent urination occurs the less likely the risk of stone formation.

Glad to hear she's doing well :thumbsup:
 
wild whippies said:
I'd presume the path report indicates what specific salts have sedimented to create a stone?
Just that its a Sulvite Stone, isnt that all there is to know as far as her diet is concerned? Not sure when belle had a cup of tea last ;-)) But water she loves!

Dave :- )

Ex partner had kidney stones, definately diet related, he drank very little and then it was mainly tea, they do advise sufferers to avoid drinking tea or dairy produce as this is supposodely contributory to their formation. Drinking copious amounts of water is beneficial anyway because it flushes out the stones when their in a small crystalline state and encourages frequent urination. By drinking little and excreting little fluid it results in a higher salt concentration and during long periods of urination i.e. sleep, the salts settle and then sediment collects together to form crystals which bond together creating a stone. Going on this theory on their formation, the more dilute the concentration of urine is and the more frequent urination occurs the less likely the risk of stone formation.

Glad to hear she's doing well :thumbsup:

Click to expand...
 
Well yes it's composition helps the vet find the cause, I'm wondering if your vet said struvite stones? as this appears the most common type and seems to be dependant upon pH in it's formation. By knowing it's composition they can then choose the best course of action to prevent recurrance in this case it would seem that dietary change, presumably to alter pH levels in the bladder would be the best course of action.
 
Hi Again

If you read my orig post I said it was Struvite stone and she is on urinary food

Cheers
 
Hi Dave

The food required for struvite stones is the type that acidifies the urine, and completely different from the food required for oxalate stones. Which type is she on? - hopefully the correct one!

Hill's prescription diet C/D would be a beneficial food for struvite, but a completely different (and more expensive as I remember) diet called U/D would be the recommended one for oxalate crystals.

I'm sure your vet knows this, but I was a bit worried as you said he told you to use the same food????

Perhaps as struvite are much more common, he started her on that diet - with a view to changing her if the results came back as oxalate?

Glad she is doing well anyway, and hope she continues to do so. :thumbsup:
 
Hi June

thanks for reply, yea she has been on the royal cannine food since the op, which is for Struvite stones....

Didnt know there was a food for oxilate stones as I read that they are non disovable with food?

whats the difference between oxilate and struvite...in simple terms pleeease! ;-)))

dave
 
Hi Dave

The struvite stones are disolvable in food, but the oxalate are not. The type of food you give helps to stop them from forming. Struvite stones form in alkaline urine, so the food you are giving produces an acidic urine, which prevents the stones from forming.

Oxalate stones require a lower calcium and oxalate diet which produces an alkaline urine, as the stones will not form in alkaline - am I making sense? :teehee:

Hope this helps!

Edited to say, acidic urine is good for preventing the growth of bugs/bacteria too - so she should be right as rain now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi

Thanks for that June, I am trying to upload a pic of belle to site, but keeps saying file too large, it has to be under 75 kb (tiny) so will keep trying!!

dave
 
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