Bwra Champs Photos

[GRAHAM PEM]

Ahhhhhh - now where's that seeding thread  (w00t)

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Tony mentioned that my shots of the 36lb ht2 could of given viewers the perception that Dobs was trying to run wide in this race as I only posted some on the sequence. For the record here's the whole sequence. (not the best kind of race you want to see your dog in when it's just recovered from an injury)

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go on then jac whos seeded where ?

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red - smokey blue (I)

blue - avit (I)

white - brookhill maggie (I)

black - ruby murray

orange - stag pocessed (W)

 

[Tony Taylor]

2 weeks previous, a similar situation at Tyrone.

For the sake of all dogs safety, I really do think that electing racing managers to observe races is essential. It is too difficult to expect owners to know their dogs exact habits when they're stood at the traps so I won't criticise anyone personally but I do think independant observers are essential in judging the correct seeding of a dog. Good luck Graham, I'm sure this will be no easy task. :thumbsup:

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The only way to stop owners seeding dogs wrongly is to start disqualifing dogs.

I would suggest that the "racing manager" of the organisations mark the card of any dog that has been seeded but subsequently run out of posistion. The owner of the problem dog could then be warned.

If the owner of a dog with a marked card seeds the dog again and the dog again runs out of posistion then that dog should be disqualified.

If the owner still persists in seeding the dog improperly any further disqualifications should lead to removal of the privelege of seeding and perhaps a penalty of a racing ban for 3 or 6 months.

Furhtermore the racing manager could mark the cards of true wide runners. Any dog that is proven to run wide should be given priority over those where only the owners word is proof of its track posistion.These dogs could be noted as extra wide.

 

[rob67]

Would be interesting to see how these racing managers are appointed? Heck of a lot of responsibility and power for one person considering it's difficult to get anyone as a halfway judge even. How would you get consisitency unless you have the same person doing it. Too much like big brother if you ask me...............and it is only my opinion...........if people are thought to be seeding their dogs in a manner that might endanger other dogs knowingly then surely the first step is to let them know that there is a difficulty, why does it always have to be talked about in terms of bans and disqualifications?

I think that the pics of Smokey Blue serve a purpose for the discussion, but I also think that there must be many other dogs doing something similar, judging by the responses, that should be considered also, rather than just one dog be used as an example, I'm not sure thats appropriate.

chris

 

[Tony Taylor]

Would be interesting to see how these racing managers are appointed? Heck of a lot of responsibility and power for one person considering it's difficult to get anyone as a halfway judge even. How would you get consisitency unless you have the same person doing it. Too much like big brother if you ask me...............and it is only my opinion...........if people are thought to be seeding their dogs in a manner that might endanger other dogs knowingly then surely the first step is to let them know that there is a difficulty, why does it always have to be talked about in terms of bans and disqualifications?I think that the pics of Smokey Blue serve a purpose for the discussion, but I also think that there must be many other dogs doing something similar, judging by the responses, that should be considered also, rather than just one dog be used as an example, I'm not sure thats appropriate.

chris

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I really don't see how deciding whether a dog runs as seeded or not is such a big responsibility. There is lots of evidence from photos and DVDs as to how certain dogs run and if there is a log of complaints against certain dogs I think that ought to be enough evidence to satisfy any independant person that the racing managers decisions are made in good faith. Would you question any racing manager for sanctions against Smokey Blue given the evidence presented so far? If rules are applies consistantly then the outcomes will be consistant.

People don't want to be midline judges because it's a boring thankless task where even correct decisions result in abuse not because officials are frightened of the responsibility.

Surely race organisers have a responsibility to ensure that races are conducted in as safe a manner as could be expected. Knowingly allowing dogs to be inappropiatly seeded is negligegence by omission IMO.

My post above suggests that owners of dogs that are being wrongly seeded be warned first. Sanctions should only be needed when owners persistantly ignore warnings. If there are no sanctions it's pointless doing anything since some owners miseeding dogs are being selfish in any case and it seems unlikely a warning alone would be sufficient for them.

Mark my words there's lots of photo's of dogs behaving inappropiatly but they're not posted to prevent a witchhunt. Smokey Blues owner may genuinely believe the dog is a railer and a warning not to seed again may be taken as intended.

Sanctions are better than doing nothing IMO.

Similar sanctions should be taken against dogs fighting .

 

[sherry]

just wondering is this just to do with bend racing? if so theres no more bends 4 ages now or shud there b a person to check dogs and sides on the straights as well? imo people will soon become frightened to seed their dogs even when they

r severe wide/rail left/right hand runners 4 fear of getting banned etc just my opinion on all this. :blink:

incidently on the pic the dog that wins the race is the only one not seeded just thought id point that out

 

[rodders]

Looking at the photos,I agree something needs doing to ensure the safety of the dogs racing.I'm sure a word with owners would be more than enough to encourage them to seed correctly or not seed at all as the case may be.It is possible that people don't realise they are seeding uncorrectly,if as someone as said they are making their choice on the view of the dogs as they come out of the traps.Once shown pics as on here or a DVD,they can then make the correct decision :thumbsup: I don't believe anyone would purposely risk their own and other dogs welfare on purpose

 

[Paws123]

I have to agree something does need doing if its just for safety of the dogs

I would also like to add , injuries have a lot to do with dogs favoring a side, some owners may not know there dogs are injured causing the dog to swap its usual racing position... i was just talking to gaz last night about the same thing ...shannon has ran straight up the middle of the track her last 2 trials , she's been treated for the past 6 weeks for a hip injury , we now have to monitor her racing to see how she goes

 

[stormydog]

HOLY CRAP JAC !! THOSE ARE THE BEST PIX IVE EVER SEEN OF RACING !!

 

[DavidH]

can see how this can be done,gypsy queen a fantastic bend dog had the ability to pass where a gap appeared at easington she past on the rail came out side to pass mid bend then came onto the rail out of the second bend.not many dogs have this ability and vision,midnight run is another.

on the bends there is always going to be bumping what you need is a good trapper to get away from trouble and bucketfuls of luck.

as maid your point did in his final away and gone

 

[rodders]

I have to agree something does need doing if its just for safety of the dogs I would also like to add , injuries have a lot to do with dogs favoring a side, some owners may not know there dogs are injured causing the dog to swap its usual racing position... i was just talking to gaz last night about the same thing ...shannon has ran straight up the middle of the track her last 2 trials , she's been treated for the past 6 weeks for a hip injury , we now have to monitor her racing to see how she goes

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Your spot on there Dee :thumbsup: Last Time our Harvey ran,he picked up the right shoulder injury on his 1st run or at the pick up,and although he seemed fine,on his second run he ran wide off the 1st bend onwards.What with that and the time he did knew there was something wrong

 

[Karen-Coral]

Would be interesting to see how these racing managers are appointed? Heck of a lot of responsibility and power for one person considering it's difficult to get anyone as a halfway judge even. How would you get consisitency unless you have the same person doing it. Too much like big brother if you ask me...............and it is only my opinion...........if people are thought to be seeding their dogs in a manner that might endanger other dogs knowingly then surely the first step is to let them know that there is a difficulty, why does it always have to be talked about in terms of bans and disqualifications?I think that the pics of Smokey Blue serve a purpose for the discussion, but I also think that there must be many other dogs doing something similar, judging by the responses, that should be considered also, rather than just one dog be used as an example, I'm not sure thats appropriate.

chris

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i would agree that the picture of this dog does highlight the need for change ---

but it is once again how you achieve this ---

lot of the problems arise when words are not chosen that actually address the situation/problem its self --

That in its turn causes conflict---

many a time when it is not meant to

How you tell someone ???or better still point out a problem and ask someone is quite different/

no one likes to be told --suggesting to someone sounds much friendlier than telling someone--

-----surely if that person thinks you are trying to be of some sort of help someone who has their dogs welfare at the forefront and not just criticising them for their actions they are more inclined to respond in a positive manner ---

We have to remember all about the give and take theory---and what goes round comes round this has been witnessed on many an occasion---

maybe if someone said to the owner of the dog in question ---have you seen what the pictures are like of the race your dog was in ???give them a chance to rectify the problem themselves --

not go ranting on about your dog caused some trouble at wherever last weekend and we have seen the pictures that prove it ---

the later way would upset most folk even if they could see you were right about the situation--

The thing that upsets most folk is the self appointed judges that stand on the line very vocally trying to be intimidating to wards the final decision as to what went on in the race or those who stand at the traps again very vocally vent their very often wrong opinions on others --about dogs and what they have done wrong during the race ---

Its not nice and those who do it would not like the same treatment --

common sense ----applied at all levels --is a must!!!!coupled with a little give and take ---

steve

 

[Paws123]

Its took us a year of different vets and therapist to find Shannon's problem , as due to the hip injury, she over time has picked up numerous other injuries and compromising , the hip was missed until 6 weeks ago...or thats what we are hoping , fingers crossed her past few runs have looked good ... be interesting to watch her on Saturday at Dawdon as its uphill

 

[Karen-Coral]

I have to agree something does need doing if its just for safety of the dogs I would also like to add , injuries have a lot to do with dogs favoring a side, some owners may not know there dogs are injured causing the dog to swap its usual racing position... i was just talking to gaz last night about the same thing ...shannon has ran straight up the middle of the track her last 2 trials , she's been treated for the past 6 weeks for a hip injury , we now have to monitor her racing to see how she goes

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good luck with her hope she shows what i know she has got ---

steve

 

[weathergirls]

the NNWRF are keeping a close eye on seedings and have been for a while now however it is no easy task seeding of a dog in the handicap will more often than no discard itself however in scratch racing as I believe owners seed their dogs as to how they come out of the traps it should be fairly easy to pick who is and who isn't seeded correctly

looking at the pics of the race in this debate at present it is showing dogs coming off the top bend and depending on the the build and agility of some dogs they will naturally be thrown wide at this point in a race. these are just a couple of points that need to be taken into consideration when we talk about where a dog has been seeded and where it finishes a race on the bends

As for straight racing it should be easier as there is a view of the dogs from trap to line

The NNWRF committee is willing to take this on board if the members are in agreement BUT we won't be riding roughshot over anyone and disqualifying dogs simply because they have bumped into a dog on its left when it had been seeded right unless it was considered deliberate of course

If the person we have in mind is willing to take on this role I believe it will make for some better, cleaner and safer racing

 

[DavidH]

ok until you have a right hand runner coming out of the red (w00t) difficult to police in some cases.

 

[wild whippies]

I think that the pics of Smokey Blue serve a purpose for the discussion, but I also think that there must be many other dogs doing something similar, judging by the responses, that should be considered also, rather than just one dog be used as an example, I'm not sure thats appropriate.
chris

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The aim of my posting was to bring it to the attention of the owners or a close friend who would do so tactfully. If you read my comments, you'll note I'm more concerned on the saftey issue, not just for other dogs but those that fall victim to a misjudgment too. I do not for one second think anyone would seed their dog incorrectly, it is of detriment to their own dog's performance. For this reason I would not like it implied that I'm trying to start a witch hunt. My own dog has made errors by my own omissions when I first started him out on the bends (e.g. his first race at Highgate I didn't seed him and he gave Pennysworth a hard time coming out the traps) As a result, I apologised to Geoff, who was very supportive and I consulted with others about his habits and thus seeded him as appropiate.

It is possible that people don't realise they are seeding uncorrectly,if as someone as said they are making their choice on the view of the dogs as they come out of the traps.Once shown pics as on here or a DVD,they can then make the correct decision :thumbsup: I don't believe anyone would purposely risk their own and other dogs welfare on purpose

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Exactly what I think Karen, the owners weren't aware. That's all. Like I said previously we can only judge our dogs out the traps, after that we rely on others for feedback.

How you tell someone ???or better still point out  a problem and ask someone is quite different/  no one likes to be told --suggesting  to someone sounds much friendlier than telling someone--

-----surely if that person thinks you are trying to be of some sort of help someone    who has their dogs welfare at the forefront and not just criticising them for their actions they are more inclined to respond in a positive manner  ---

We have to remember all about the give and take theory---and what goes round comes round this has been witnessed on many an occasion---

maybe if someone said to the owner of the dog in question ---have you seen what the pictures are like of the race your dog was in ???give them a chance to rectify the problem themselves --

steve

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I mulled on it for a long time and discussed it with others, some were very heated about it but I felt that kind of approach was very negative, furthermore, I don't think that criticisms would be entirely justified either.

I believe this was a genuine error and would hope that a more positive approach would be to say that this dog lost out because of this error as it was unable to get to it's side because my dog also wanted to get to his.

 

[Karen-Coral]

If all the racing owners were as genuine and thoughtful as you Jac's there would be lots more folk in it --

steve/

 

[Karen-Coral]

Hey....You can't beat a bit of 'mulling' can you?

Karen :clown:

 

[Vicky]

Good examples of well seeded dogs (and i hope they don't mind me mentioning their dogs) Pennysworth, Turkish, Avit, Brookhill Maggie, Acca, Showman are my idea of dogs that definitely need seeding as they start on the inside of a race and stay on the inside all the way round the track and by no means get "thrown out" round the second bend.

 

[Karen-Coral]

Whitey even now don't leave enough room between him and rail for water to get through let alone a dog --lol good job he is white or he might have a stripe ---

Steve