We have had our 11 month old frenchie since 12 weeks old from a breeder. She still is not house trained. We let her out first thing in the morning around 5-5.30 and sometimes as late as 12-1pm depending when we go to bed. She sits outside looking through the window and hardly moves (sometimes has a wee) we stand outside and play ball to get her active to encourage her to play. Our other dog is 7 and was toilet trained after a week. The frenchie just dosent seem to get toilet training at all. She will be outside for an hour most nights before bed but comes in and wees and poos numerous times and eats her own poo (and our other dogs when outside!!) disgusting I know :- ( she is on a prescription diet as suffers with constant diarrhoea if she eats anything but this. We've been to the vets and tried numerous things but every morning or when I go out and come back I am greeted with a river of wee and poo all over the kitchen. To say the least I'm at my witts end now and looking to see if anyone else had had the same problem or could offer any advice??
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11 month old Frenchie won't house train & eats her poo
- Thread starter Lola123
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Hi Lola123, and welcome to DogForum.
Hmmmm, I don't envy you at all with this one. Coprophagia apart, it sounds like she genuinely hasn't got the message about where to go to the loo. Has she ever been to the loo in the desired place outside?
Have you tried taking her poo outside and putting it where you want her to go (and rather disgustingly taking a cloth soaked in her urine and wringing it out where she should go) in order to give her a smelly pointer to where she should go? If you've tried that, what happened?
Does she scent mark where your other dog goes? If she's done that, how do you reinforce that?
Have you tried putting down a puppy pad and restricting her to that? How about crating her? If you've tried crating her, does she go to the loo when crated? If she does, where and when does she go, relative to her bed?
I'm trying to work out whether she's continent (as in, she's not weeing all of the time in little bursts like a small puppy, she has control of her bladder but chooses inappropriate times and places) or whether she's actually got control issues. If she's weeing and pooing consistently in the wrong place then that suggests that she does have control and it's the decision that is an issue.
What happens when you take her out for a walk? Does she go to the loo properly then? If she does then you could exchange putting her outside before bed for a walk which makes her go to the loo properly. Some dogs have very strange ideas about going to the loo in their own garden and that could play a part in the issue?
Right- on to the coprophagia. This one comes down to interrupting her doing it and calling her away to do other things, allowing you to clear up so she can't do it, I'm afraid. There is lots written about coprophagia being a nutritional issue, but it's far more common in certain breeds (including Frenchies and pugs) and to me that means that it's got far more to do with the breed and training than it has to do with nutrition. Thankfully for most dogs there are treats which are far more appealing than eating poo, so when you have got it firmly into their heads that they will get a lovely treat if they leave the poo alone then you have made their stomach overrule their habit. There are lots of people who claim that feeding them pineapple stops it and there are pills which claim to make the poo less attractive to them, but generally the answer is either that they like it or they're bored and if you train them in a new routine then that can replace the poo eating when combined with cleaning it up promptly.
Another thing you will need to do is to clean to doggy clean standards where she's currently going to the loo. Just because we can't smell where she's gone to the loo doesn't mean that she can't, and that can make them scent mark repeatedly on the same spot. My advice for properly removing the smell contains several stages:
1) Clean well with a solution of disinfectant, rinse and dry.
2) Follow up with a weak solution of biological laundry detergent (liquid or gel, not powder as that leaves a granular residue) which is also rinsed and dried. This starts the process of digesting the smell molecules.
3) Acquire a steam cleaner, ideally a pressurised one. Go over the area very carefully, focusing on any seams, joins or porous areas which could harbour a reservoir of urine which has soaked in. Give it plenty of time with steam coverage- at least 20 seconds on all areas. Steam further degenerates the smells which may have seeped into surfaces.
4) As a final insurance that you have got to all of the smell molecules, go over the area thoroughly with a specialist pet smell odour killer. I use Safe4 Odour Killer, but there are lots available in pet shops. If you have a large area to cover or a big habit to break it really is worth buying a litre of concentrate so you can really soak the area and leave it to soak into furnishings and/or carpets where necessary.
I know that you can't follow this plan for every instance, but as part of the training process you could do with a proper deep clean on the area she's using at least once a week, to take away her stimulus to wee in one area of the kitchen. Combine this with taking her for a walk and rewarding her for going to the loo (and leaving the poo alone) when you're out before bed and before any time that you leave her. Then change her feeding area to where she previously went to the loo, if you can, so that further interrupts her habit.
Of course, I could be preaching to the converted and you may have tried all of these things already
Hmmmm, I don't envy you at all with this one. Coprophagia apart, it sounds like she genuinely hasn't got the message about where to go to the loo. Has she ever been to the loo in the desired place outside?
Have you tried taking her poo outside and putting it where you want her to go (and rather disgustingly taking a cloth soaked in her urine and wringing it out where she should go) in order to give her a smelly pointer to where she should go? If you've tried that, what happened?
Does she scent mark where your other dog goes? If she's done that, how do you reinforce that?
Have you tried putting down a puppy pad and restricting her to that? How about crating her? If you've tried crating her, does she go to the loo when crated? If she does, where and when does she go, relative to her bed?
I'm trying to work out whether she's continent (as in, she's not weeing all of the time in little bursts like a small puppy, she has control of her bladder but chooses inappropriate times and places) or whether she's actually got control issues. If she's weeing and pooing consistently in the wrong place then that suggests that she does have control and it's the decision that is an issue.
What happens when you take her out for a walk? Does she go to the loo properly then? If she does then you could exchange putting her outside before bed for a walk which makes her go to the loo properly. Some dogs have very strange ideas about going to the loo in their own garden and that could play a part in the issue?
Right- on to the coprophagia. This one comes down to interrupting her doing it and calling her away to do other things, allowing you to clear up so she can't do it, I'm afraid. There is lots written about coprophagia being a nutritional issue, but it's far more common in certain breeds (including Frenchies and pugs) and to me that means that it's got far more to do with the breed and training than it has to do with nutrition. Thankfully for most dogs there are treats which are far more appealing than eating poo, so when you have got it firmly into their heads that they will get a lovely treat if they leave the poo alone then you have made their stomach overrule their habit. There are lots of people who claim that feeding them pineapple stops it and there are pills which claim to make the poo less attractive to them, but generally the answer is either that they like it or they're bored and if you train them in a new routine then that can replace the poo eating when combined with cleaning it up promptly.
Another thing you will need to do is to clean to doggy clean standards where she's currently going to the loo. Just because we can't smell where she's gone to the loo doesn't mean that she can't, and that can make them scent mark repeatedly on the same spot. My advice for properly removing the smell contains several stages:
1) Clean well with a solution of disinfectant, rinse and dry.
2) Follow up with a weak solution of biological laundry detergent (liquid or gel, not powder as that leaves a granular residue) which is also rinsed and dried. This starts the process of digesting the smell molecules.
3) Acquire a steam cleaner, ideally a pressurised one. Go over the area very carefully, focusing on any seams, joins or porous areas which could harbour a reservoir of urine which has soaked in. Give it plenty of time with steam coverage- at least 20 seconds on all areas. Steam further degenerates the smells which may have seeped into surfaces.
4) As a final insurance that you have got to all of the smell molecules, go over the area thoroughly with a specialist pet smell odour killer. I use Safe4 Odour Killer, but there are lots available in pet shops. If you have a large area to cover or a big habit to break it really is worth buying a litre of concentrate so you can really soak the area and leave it to soak into furnishings and/or carpets where necessary.
I know that you can't follow this plan for every instance, but as part of the training process you could do with a proper deep clean on the area she's using at least once a week, to take away her stimulus to wee in one area of the kitchen. Combine this with taking her for a walk and rewarding her for going to the loo (and leaving the poo alone) when you're out before bed and before any time that you leave her. Then change her feeding area to where she previously went to the loo, if you can, so that further interrupts her habit.
Of course, I could be preaching to the converted and you may have tried all of these things already
Hi, thank you for the advice. We have tried the stool repel tablets and are currently giving them a second try. We have tried the pineapple but that didn't make a difference too. We have fed both the dogs these things as she likes to eat the other dogs poo too! She dosent poo when out on a walk and very rarely wees either.
We tried crate training but the mess was horrific! We are using puppy pads also and she will sometimes use these, it depends if she feels like it! But mostly she wees under the table or by the living room door. I clean these daily with a steam cleaner and washing liquid. She will eat any poo if it is left for more than a few minutes, I try and follow her as much as possible as to pick it up ASAP but you only have to turn your back and it's gone!
It's like we are fighting a losing battle
We tried crate training but the mess was horrific! We are using puppy pads also and she will sometimes use these, it depends if she feels like it! But mostly she wees under the table or by the living room door. I clean these daily with a steam cleaner and washing liquid. She will eat any poo if it is left for more than a few minutes, I try and follow her as much as possible as to pick it up ASAP but you only have to turn your back and it's gone!
It's like we are fighting a losing battle
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Hi Lola,
How are you getting on now with your Frenchie?.
We are having similar issues with our puppy and would be good to hear of any success you have had?
Our Vet has suggested that some of his issues could be related to some form of separation anxiety.
How are you getting on now with your Frenchie?.
We are having similar issues with our puppy and would be good to hear of any success you have had?
Our Vet has suggested that some of his issues could be related to some form of separation anxiety.
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The first thing to do is go back to basics with house training. Take her to her favourite place and wait with her. Be boring, while you wait but gently praise her as she squats to go. Reinforce the behaviour immediately she finishes with a high value reward like chicken which is very gentle on the tummy. Completely ignore any mistakes. Start with regular visits and then watch her for signs that she is asking to go out because she knows she will get rewarded outside (and ignored inside).
Using newspaper or puppy pads is counter productive to house training. You are sending out messages that it is "ok" to toilet indoors. While training is going on the dog needs to be restricted to washable floors unless the bladder and bowels are known to empty. If paper and pads have been used then it does, I am afraid, slow down the training process.
Never, ever, ever let her pick up that you are unhappy about finding wee or poo. This makes dogs avoid us when they need to toilet because they know we do no like it. It can also make them eat the evidence!
I have had a lot of success treating coprophagia using pro biotics. Poo eating often follows tummy troubles because the bacteria in the bowels gets all out of kilter. The dog tries to rectify this lack of bacteria by eating some! It then turns into a habit or a game with the owners. Prevent as much as you can, ignore it when you can't. Forti flora is a good pro biotic for dogs. A course of that and then long term use of natural yoghurt has been shown to be very successful.
If you want a cheap alternative cleaner then use a 10% solution of biological detergent. Rinse. Dry and agitate some spirit, such as white vinegar or surgical spirit, into the area to lift the last fat deposits present in urine and faeces.
Using newspaper or puppy pads is counter productive to house training. You are sending out messages that it is "ok" to toilet indoors. While training is going on the dog needs to be restricted to washable floors unless the bladder and bowels are known to empty. If paper and pads have been used then it does, I am afraid, slow down the training process.
Never, ever, ever let her pick up that you are unhappy about finding wee or poo. This makes dogs avoid us when they need to toilet because they know we do no like it. It can also make them eat the evidence!
I have had a lot of success treating coprophagia using pro biotics. Poo eating often follows tummy troubles because the bacteria in the bowels gets all out of kilter. The dog tries to rectify this lack of bacteria by eating some! It then turns into a habit or a game with the owners. Prevent as much as you can, ignore it when you can't. Forti flora is a good pro biotic for dogs. A course of that and then long term use of natural yoghurt has been shown to be very successful.
If you want a cheap alternative cleaner then use a 10% solution of biological detergent. Rinse. Dry and agitate some spirit, such as white vinegar or surgical spirit, into the area to lift the last fat deposits present in urine and faeces.
