videoing shows

[aslan]

I don't want to start an argument, and this is NOT a slur on the SYWC - please don't take it that way - I am just interested to hear people's opinions.

I don't agree with videoing of dogs being banned - particularly at large specialty shows.

I do agree that if one took a video of a dog and then wanted to use that dog as an example at a judge's lecture (for example) then you would not have the right to do that unless you had the permission of the owner.

However for a person's own use in their own home to enable them to have a record of all dogs at the show and be able to study them at leisure for their own knowledge and use - I can't see a problem with that.

For those of you that aren't aware - I went to England in 2002 and visited the South Yorkshire Whippet Club show. This was a once in a lifetime experience for me. I had hopes to either import a dog or semen. There were 240 entries at that show and I was not allowed to video. I was not filming to make a video to sell for profit I was making a video for my own personal use. I was never going to remember every dog at that show from one viewing, aside from hastily scribbled notes in my catalogue. So really my time at that show was "wasted" because I could only remember very few dogs in detail. I wanted to be able to come home and look at the dogs over and over and learn what stud dogs and brood bitches were producing over time, to watch top dogs I had heard much about on the move, and to look carefully at dogs from the lesser known/less advertised breeders (that we don't see much of in Oz) - to gain a better knowledge of the English lines and therefore, when the time came, be able to make a very informed decision. And movement, being very important to me, cannot be judged by a photo.

At the Victorian Whippet Specialty every year - the whole show is filmed by a professional and then sold to anyone who wants to buy one. I went down in 2001 taking with me 3 dogs and 3 bitches. The two young males I now know were not great specimens and I probably should not have shown them (added to that they had both lost a lot of weight on the 3000km drive down there!) - so it is a little embarrassing for me to have them on there for people to see as examples of my breeding. However - it was also a good wake-up call for me - when I sat back to watch them in their classes. Of course I knew what their faults were before I showed them but to watch them against the others it just made me realise that in many ways they just weren't 'cutting the mustard'.

Videos of specialties are invaluable tools to whippet lovers, for many reasons.

I also stood ringside in Enkoping, Sweden and Pleasanton, California and filmed and not one person was bothered at all.

I can't see why people would be so 'protective' of their dogs as to not allow them to be filmed - unless of course they fear they have something to hide. One does not need to have the owner's permission to stand ringside and watch the dog and make a judgement, and then that person can go back home and say what they like about that dog to others. The unscrupulous character, in this manner, can do more damage to a dog's reputation by 'bad mouthing' it to all and sundry (who have not actually seen the dog themselves) "Oh I've seen that dog - he's got a terrible front". If that is a lie and there is a video available - then others can see for themselves that it IS a lie. And if it is the truth then the owner has to live with the fact, like we all do.

What do you think?

 

[Karen]

I dont exactly agree with no videoing but can quite understand why SYWC dont want it. You said yourself Lana that your dogs had lost weight on the way to the show, but I could have videoed and said to people back here that all your dogs were really rough and were not well fed. Dogs have off days, my dogs move MUCH better in a big ring outside on grass so at SYWC you may have got the wrong picture if you had seen them, its also one thing for you to know your dogs faults but quite another for other people to say why did that get the ticket the dog and the judge are rubbish. Im sure most of us would not mind at all if you asked if you could do it outside or in the break.

Hope this helps, dont judge everyone by your open fair standards

 

[Millie]

I have to agree with Lana on this one. I cannot see why videoing is so bad, its just another case of dogs on the day. I have a few videos of collie classes and I often watch them as they are very imformitive (sp?). Plus you can learn so much from them, you can freeze a dog at a certain time and replay bits, that you just cannot do on the day of the show. As long its only for your own personal viewing I think it should be allowed.

When I judge the collies I try and get a friend to video it for me as we haven't all got photographic memories and even the quickly jotted down notes in the judging book can miss a few details. Saying that when judging whippets have not done so, I just get the impression it would not be apprieciated (don't no why, whippet people are a friendly lot)

Well thats my two pennies worth LOL :unsure:

 

[aslan]

but I could have videoed and said to people back here that all your dogs were really rough and were not well fed.
its also one thing for you to know your dogs faults but quite another for other people to say why did that get the ticket the dog and the judge are rubbish.

Im sure most of us would not mind at all if you asked if you could do it outside or in the break.

I'd like to use these three things to further demonstrate my points.

1. Had you just come and watched you could have gone home and said all my dogs were rough and not well fed. However if you had the video - it would have shown my bitches to be in good condition and, although not placed, up to the competition. So therefore you couldn't just say it and have people take your word for it because the video would be available for them to see otherwise.

Secondly I showed the young lads in that condition - I had the option not to - but I had travelled so far and wanted to be in the ring as much as possible - so I did. If someone commented while watching the vid - that dog is out of condition - that's fair comment and I have to live with that. Also if they said about the puppy dog - that dog is straight in shoulder and doesn't have enough reach - that was fair comment too - it was the truth.

Recently an acquaintance of mine who lives in another state, (who, to my knowledge, has never been to my area, not while I've been living here anyway) went overseas on a holiday and told an overseas friend of mine that all the whippets in my area moved with short mincing steps. I sent my friend a video of the dogs in my area so that she could see and decide for herself. She now thinks that we generally have very good moving dogs in this area. I wonder how many other people, in how many other countries did this person make this damaging comment to? And how many people just believed this person because (a) they had not seen our dogs and had nothing to argue with and (b) because he/she was from this country "he/she would know - it must be the truth".

2. People say all the time 'why did that dog get the ticket?' and 'that judge was useless' - whether they've got a video of the judging or not, and especially if they are sore losers. That is human nature and part and parcel, unfortunately, of the dog show game.

As much as there's the possibility of someone watching the video bagging your dog there's the possibility too that the people watching the video might actually LIKE your dog

3. I'm sure too that most people wouldn't have minded if I had asked them individually if I could film their dogs outside - but I would never have got every dog that way.

 

[Karen]

A few years back, Im hoping someone else will remember when and what breed. Someone videoed some judging, did some copies and sent lots of people in the breed the tape of the ticket winners awful movement, it wasnt a Whippet. But all this stems from that incident.

I have absolutely no problem at all with anyone videoing, I know somebody was videoing at WCWales no problem.

 

[aslan]

I agree wholeheartedly that kind of caper is definitely bad form. And that person should have been dealt with severely - but it does seem a shame that others have to be penalised for one person's bad manners.

But it brings to mind another question - is what that person did any different to him lining up people verbally and saying "you watch that dog next time it's in the ring - it's got awful movement". Now we all know that that happens on a weekly basis. I've had people say it to me - but when I go to look at the dog - does it have bad movement in my opinion? If it doesn't - I say so - and back up my argument as best I can with my knowledge.

Perhaps are people worried that there are so many people out there who don't have a clue about movement that they will just blindly agree with the person making the slur - but if those people are silly enough to follow blindly then that will happen video or no video, ringside or not ringside.

By putting your dog in the ring you are putting it up for criticism - from the judge and from the bystanders: anybody is allowed to come and stand ringside and formulate opinions which are then expressed back at their tent or at home with friends that night - I can't see how it is any different to have it on video for a different set of "bystanders".

 

[dessie]

I have no problem with people videoing or photographing whilst my dogs are in the ring. The very fact that I am showing them means they are there to be admired/criticised by all and sundry, it is a chance you take every time you enter a show.

 

[JAX]

I agree with Dessie there . If you didn`t want people to see and critisize (sp) your dog you shouldn`t be showing it.! :b

 

[janfiers]

Ok this is the sad one here, but I do believe there is a general KC rule which states that the taking of photographs and videoing while judging is in progress is not allowed. But having quickly flicked through the Red Book can't find it in writing. I'm fairly sure that is the case as it happened to me at one of our Clubs open shows (I'm the secretary) and somebody was complaining about another person videoing Chihuahuas. There was a KC Liaison Officer there and he told me that it was not allowed. Photographs could only be taken at the end of the class judging.

I do agree that flash photography shouldn't be used whilst judging is in progress, if only from a purely selfish point of view because one of my dogs is frightened to death of it, from when he was a puppy and had a scare with some lightning. He just goes to pieces and so my twenty quid or whatever is wasted. Can't see the harm in videoing though as there is no flash.

 

[playawhile]

Hi!

I can't see why people would object to filming at shows!!?? At our most important show the specialty at Tammsvik here in Sweden (usually around 250 entries) two persons are video filming all dogs and then some time after the show you can buy the film and it is wonderful being able to sit and watch what happened at the show years back!!

Think of it as a wonderful way of documenting the breed at certain points in time. What would't you pay to see some film photage of Ch Zuber or Ch Laguna Ligonier?

Henrik Härling

http://welcome.to/playawhile

 

[aslan]

>>The very fact that I am showing them means they are there to be admired/criticised by all and sundry

>>If you didn`t want people to see and critisize (sp) your dog you shouldn`t be showing it.!

>>Can't see the harm in videoing though as there is no flash.

>>a wonderful way of documenting the breed at certain points in time. What would't you pay to see some film photage of Ch Zuber or Ch Laguna Ligonier?

So true!

And I would love to see Mintmaster on the move.

So what is the deal with BBC and the Crufts Special we see on TV - do they have to go to every Best of Breed winner and get their permission to film them in the group? What about the General Specials? What if someone in that BIS line up said, no you can't film my dog? Would the whole special not happen or would they film BIS without showing that particular dog? What would viewers think if one of the representatives was missing from the BIS line up? Makes you wonder ....

How disappointed would the rest of the world be if we couldn't see Crufts or Westminster on TV?

Oh - and what if you were the person who said no you can't film my dog and you got Best in Show - wouldn't you be crying in your beer then - a historic win and no video record of it! :wacko:

 

[Karen]

As usual we are governed by a small load minority

 

[playawhile]

As usual we are governed by a small load minority

Hi!

Being Swedish and english my second language I can't understand what you mean, can you explain to me, please!

Henrik Härling

http://welcome.to/playawhile

 

[Karen]

Sorry Henrik, Im English and I dont understand english so you have my deepest sypathy

Firstly I meant to type 'loud' not 'load' :b

If this is still not clear.

Most of the time in UK we just get on with our lives without much trouble. Lately if a small group of people object to something and make a fuss about it thay seem to get it stopped or changed regardless of majority opinion. Political correctness I think is the term. Very sad

 

[Mark Roberts]

Most of the time in UK we just get on with our lives without much trouble. Lately if a small group of people object to something and make a fuss about it thay seem to get it stopped or changed regardless of majority opinion. Political correctness I think is the term. Very sad

To much of it going on if you ask me! (although I no noone did :- " )

 

[dessie]

Don't know about the BBC but I know Pedigree seek permission to publish the photos of the BOBs they take on the move in the Group ring to put in their adverts and as you get doodly squit out of them these days, it will only be for the glory of seeing your dog in the press!

 

[JAX]

Lana mentioned the Westminster ( for the folks that don`t know what it is ,its the American eqivaulent(sp) to our Crufts) ,

Apart from the fact that it is the first 1250 dogs entries only and all the dogs have to be Champions, There is only 1 class per breed , dogs and bitches are judged together!! The yearsI went there was 34 whippets.

The Westminster has full tv coverage every night showing ALL B O B`s and all the group . which dosn`t start till 8 oclock in the evening!! and goes on till 11. pm!!

Here if your lucky if you get the `cut `from the group and the odd BoB . Most of the coverage is round the stalls , chatting to `celebs`(who usually have nothing to do with dogs) :angry: , Stupid Flyball ( dont ask ,Lana !!)Obediance , Agility and now we have movement to Music to contend with too .!!

I can appreciate it must take alot of hard work and skill to teach the dogs these skills but at the end of the day Crufts was originally a [SIZE=21pt] DOG SHOW !!!!!!!!!![/SIZE]

What we want to see is ALL Best of Breeds and if they are going to talk to pepes for goodness sake talk to pepe s in dogs. Sod the B y stalls !!!!!!! o

 

[Millie]

Couldn't agree more Jax :thumbsup:

 

[Debra]

Hi All,

Talking as a novice, how are we suppose to keep these great breeds of dogs going if we can't study them. I for one have learnt so much from watching video's and then studying the dogs in the flesh. But as i said í'm a novice, all i want is to learn all about the breed and do my best for it and i find video is the best way for me. I tend to find once ive had a sleep i forget everything :wacko: :wacko: .

Anyway thats my two cents worth,

Debra 8) :wacko:

 

[Katana]

Doesn't anyone remember the situation with the Pointers a few years back with regard to filming at shows?