Two Litters In A Year... Poor Bitch

[mally]

I've been looking around at forthcoming litters of pups as someone has asked me to keep an eye out for them as there looking for a pup at the moment. Well i've stumbled across a breeder who had a litter of pups in may, and the same bitch is due again soon.

IMO the kennel club should refuse the breeder from registering this litter. It's all about money for some folk and they don't give a monkey's about the bitches welfare....

 

[peppermint lady]

I've been looking around at forthcoming litters of pups as someone has asked me to keep an eye out for them as there looking for a pup at the moment. Well i've stumbled across a breeder who had a litter of pups in may, and the same bitch is due again soon.
IMO the kennel club should refuse the breeder from registering this litter. It's all about money for some folk and they don't give a monkey's about the bitches welfare....

thats terrible, i didnt think you could register 2 litters from the same bitch in a year??

i look at my Grace here now with her pups and couldn't imagine breeding her again, infact i will never be breeding from her again

 

[Hula]

I have found it very difficult to get a well reared puppy from a decent person . Either they are breeding the bitches too often or they are trying to off load the puppies at 6 weeks . Some are not rearing the puppies properly with correct worming etc .

I know there are very good people out there breeding puppies but there are many more who are not .It's like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find a puppy .

Hopefully I have now got sorted out with somone suitable

 

[JAX]

Completly agree with you all . some of these breeders are on the Kennel club Acredited Breeders Scheme too .

No wonder most of us refuse to join it

At one time it wasnt allowed 2 litters in 12 months . but then I think they changed it , and whose to say they register the litter anyhow ?

 

[Nicola]

I have found it very difficult to get a well reared puppy from a decent person . Either they are breeding the bitches too often or they are trying to off load the puppies at 6 weeks . Some are not rearing the puppies properly with correct worming etc . I know there are very good people out there breeding puppies but there are many more who are not .It's like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find a puppy .

Hopefully I have now got sorted out with somone suitable

I would hazard a guess that there are quite a few good breeders out there, as you say, but they rely on word of mouth and are more discreet in how they advertise their litters. Don't rely on the web to find the right pup, ask breed club secretaries to recommend a breeder or put the word out that you're looking, in the right section on here or TWF and I'm sure a reputable breeder will be found. If you're in the know, you'll keep an eye on those breeders doing well in the show ring and or keep an eye on dogs you like the look of at shows and follow up this avenue of opportunity. I guess this is more relevant to those wanting a pup from show bred stock. If you're wanting a pup bred from working or racing stock, then this might be a bit trickier, but some nice litters do appear in the racing section from time to time. I would imagine seeking out working bred pups is more of a minefield.

 

[bertha]

I have found it very difficult to get a well reared puppy from a decent person . Either they are breeding the bitches too often or they are trying to off load the puppies at 6 weeks . Some are not rearing the puppies properly with correct worming etc . I know there are very good people out there breeding puppies but there are many more who are not .It's like looking for a needle in a haystack trying to find a puppy .

Hopefully I have now got sorted out with somone suitable

I would hazard a guess that there are quite a few good breeders out there, as you say, but they rely on word of mouth and are more discreet in how they advertise their litters. Don't rely on the web to find the right pup, ask breed club secretaries to recommend a breeder or put the word out that you're looking, in the right section on here or TWF and I'm sure a reputable breeder will be found. I guess this is more relevant to those wanting a pup from show bred stock. If you're wanting a pup bred from working or racing stock, then this might be a bit trickier, but some nice litters do appear in the racing section from time to time. I would imagine seeking out working bred pups is more of a minefield.

I agree with you, breed club secretaries will always be willing to help and advise on where the best place to go is, they know their members and if there are any litters around. Buying dogs off the net is hazardous IMO.

The KC accredited breeders membership means nothing, pity, the KC had a golden opportunity there to only allow people to join after their premises and dogs were inspected. Health tests done etc.

Breeding twice in 12 months is wrong, selling pups under 8 weeks old is wrong too.

 

[Debbie b]

i know a cocker spaniel breeder who is accredited and on a breed club council that bred his bitch three times one season after the other he got away with it because he had small litters and the kennel club allowed it,

Imo no bitch should be bred under the age of 2 and should only be allowed to breed with bitch twice with a break in between but then then kennel club wouldn't get the registration fee's would they,

there is too many grey area's , there is some genuine people out there that only breed because they want a pup themselves

i have only ever bred 2 litters of pups one terriers and one lurchers most were given to friends, i wouldn't breed again, as i had quite a few enquiries for the said litters and i just didn't like the people, my bitches were bred from as they were proven at what they did and went to sires that were also proven in their field

 

[mally]

There are far too many whippet pups around with quite poor breeding IMO. It seems to be the norm for people to put the nearest pedigree dog over there bitches just to breed a litter of pups. They don't think about lines etc all they think about is the £'s. I've seen pups advertised for as little as £150.00 Kc registered, i actually responded to an advertisement in the countrymans weekly advertising whippet pups at £200. I spoke to the breeder and he informed me that all the pups were sold but he had 2 more litters due in the next few weeks if i'd like to put a deposit down for one of those!!!!. It turned out he had 6 bitches and a stud dog.

It's a real shame that these type of people actually keep and breed whippets, they don't care about there dogs all they care about is making a quick buck as soon as the bitches are too old to breed i dread to think what will happen to them then.

There are some very responsible breeders out there and all it takes is a few simple questions to sort out the 'wheat from the chaff'

I always ask the following questions.

How many litters has the bitch had and what are the earlier pups like?

why did they breed the litter?

How did they come to choose the stud dog they used?

Are they keeping a pup themselves?

 

[whippetmad]

So very sad :rant:

 

[T Hoare]

I was intending to have a litter out of a my 3.5 year old bitch this time but I decided against it (due to not being able to sleep on her first day, which was my omen to not do it).

It has been 5 years since my last litter & I do hope that I will be able to have the litter in the Summer.

I do wish the KC would make it mandatory in all breeds that the bitch has to be a minimum of 18 months, preferably 24 months, before the first litter.

 

[storm1]

there always a way round this for breeders they dont kc the second litter and sell cheaper

but not always

and the other is 2sets of papers for same bitch new a top breeder of labradors FTCH do this regular

 

[wild whippies]

IMO the kennel club should refuse the breeder from registering this litter. It's all about money for some folk and they don't give a monkey's about the bitches welfare....

TBH Paul I think they'd still breed regardless of whether the KC handed out papers. The financial margin between a KC reg and a non-KC reg pups is small. My first whippet was devoid of registration for this reason and all it did was prevent me from racing her with the WCRA and her one litter of pups that I bred when she was 5 yrs old. As you know they weren't even hindered from racing in the end as I went over to non-peds where they've probably got more recognition and appreciation than if they had ran with the WCRA. :wacko:

All the exemption of papers does is detract potential owners who had the intention of doing something with their dog, e.g. showing and in fairness anyone wanting a dog for a purpose isn't going to get a pup from a sub standard lining because it's highly likely they're on a waiting list for something that's caught their eye.

I would hazard a guess that there are quite a few good breeders out there, as you say, but they rely on word of mouth and are more discreet in how they advertise their litters.

Absolutely spot on!

TBH if I'm breeding a litter, one (or more likely) some of the puppies will be staying here. The same tact should be happening with stud dog owners e.g. the bitch their dog is lining is good enough for them to want a puppy from. It would be interesting if stud fee's were scrapped by those with decent stud dogs and they became selective about what their dogs lined. Simultaneously, it would be meerly a matter of time before the KC registration paper became something that was associated with quality but lets face it the money motivation doesn't just stop with those who are breeding bitches prolifically.

 

[fallenangel]

if the rules are now only 1 litter per calendar year they will get away with the second litter as after midnight its a new years for them like jacs i would only breed a litter if i wanted at least one pup from it. Lacey's pups are now 17 months old and even though i have other entire bitches and been asked for a pups of s a couple of my girls because i dont want a pup there will be non breed here. there does need to be a really good look at rules for breeding and why people breed. saying that there will always be the money grabbers who will fined a way round every rule

 

[FeeFee]

At one time there were hardly any whippets in rescue, you practically had to fight to get one when they came up, and also very few advertised in freeads or 'those' websites, but sadly that's no longer the case. Like many other breeds there are too many people now churning out pups for money and not caring about the quality of the pups or where they go.

I don't think witholding KC registration would stop it - there are plenty of poor lurcher bitches being bred young and bred season after season and registration obviously isn't an issue for them

 

[JAX]

At one time there were hardly any whippets in rescue, you practically had to fight to get one when they came up, and also very few advertised in freeads or 'those' websites, but sadly that's no longer the case. Like many other breeds there are too many people now churning out pups for money and not caring about the quality of the pups or where they go.
I don't think witholding KC registration would stop it - there are plenty of poor lurcher bitches being bred young and bred season after season and registration obviously isn't an issue for them

completely agree with you .

 

[Seraphina]

At one time there were hardly any whippets in rescue, you practically had to fight to get one when they came up, and also very few advertised in freeads or 'those' websites, but sadly that's no longer the case. Like many other breeds there are too many people now churning out pups for money and not caring about the quality of the pups or where they go.
I don't think witholding KC registration would stop it - there are plenty of poor lurcher bitches being bred young and bred season after season and registration obviously isn't an issue for them

completely agree with you .

Yes, there is not much that KCs can do. If they tighten up rules, people will breed pups without papers, or they will find their way around it. For instance they can have 2 sets of papers and only one bitch, so it looks like they are breeding from 2 different bitches. Unless you have controlled breeding, like in some countries, where the breed advisers go to see every litter before the pups are registered, there is no way to stop such practices.

What it needs is a government legislation to make it more difficult for people; such as having to microchip all pups before they are sold, and fines for anybody advertising pups that are not microchipped. But, we should be careful what we wish for, as government legislation may very well include something that will affect all breeders, and legislations always favors big business; it may get rid of the small breeders and the big commercial puppy farms will benefit.

By the way, is there really such a big increase in Whippet population in UK? I thought that here in Australia there is many more Whippets being bred now than there was in the past, but I just came across the registration figures for the past 23 years and the registrations are pretty much the same now as they were then! In 1986 there were 551 Whippets registered and in 2008 there were 571, with most years between 500 - 600, the most ever was in 2000 when there were 719 and the least was in 1997; only 395. Of course, that does not show how many unregistered litters were bred then and now, but in the past people often only registered those pups that went to show homes, while now we are not allowed to do that.

 

[~Annie~]

... By the way, is there really such a big increase in Whippet population in UK? I thought that here in Australia there is many more Whippets being bred now than there was in the past, but I just came across the registration figures for the past 23 years and the registrations are pretty much the same now as they were then! In 1986 there were 551 Whippets registered and in 2008 there were 571, with most years between 500 - 600, the most ever was in 2000 when there were 719 and the least was in 1997; only 395. Of course, that does not show how many unregistered litters were bred then and now, but in the past people often only registered those pups that went to show homes, while now we are not allowed to do that.

In 2007 the whippet was at 19 in the UK KC's top 20, with 3043 registrations, and in 2008 whippets were at 17, with 3328. In the first 3/4 of 2009 2328 whips were registered, so if that trend continues numbers for 2009 will be lower than 2008. No idea about unregistered litters and non peds though.