Training Help :(

[Mimoo123]

I've just rescued a Working Cocker Spaniel bitch about 3 weeks ago. Obviously I know a settling period is allowed for but she is so attached to me that it's becoming a bit of an obsession for her. I work full time and my partner works from home so he is with her all day but she will not settle when I am not there, she walks round constantly looking for me in a frenzy. At the moment she spends most of her day in her crate because she is 'to hot to handle' so to speak, but she is fine and will happily chill in there. I dont know what I can do to make it better for her. I've tried tough love and completely ignoring her and not touch her all and I've come to work today and my partners message me to say she is even worse and pee'd all over the carpet so she is back in her crate.
She will also not go for a wee/toilet outside without me. My partner has to literally pick her up and take her outside or she wont go and will go where she pleases in the house... as you can imagine he isn't to happy with that. Obvs i know this is all toilet training but I can't be there all the time and she has to get used to my partner.
She will also not walk for anyone apart from me, if my partner or daughter try to take her she tried to turn round home until she realises she cant but it can make a 30min walk into nearly an hour. Where as I can get her up and out and home without an issue.

I do think its lovely that I have a dog so attached to me, everyone wants for a hopelessly devoted dog but this is becoming a major problem and I just don't know how to fix it.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated... i've got to make it work

 

[Waggy Tales Blog]

Did the rescue give you any information about her background, it might give you a clue as to why she is like this.

 

[Mimoo123]

Did the rescue give you any information about her background, it might give you a clue as to why she is like this.

Yes she is an ex-puppy farm breeding bitch. That is all i know but i help out at the kennels i got her from so knew her when she arrived. They were not underweight or mistreated but had very limited human contact except for the obvious. She has just latched onto me like a leech and wont give up till she's found me I dont really know why - i haven't treat her any differently to what my partner/daughter has done. Although i'm taking an active part in her training. She isn't the only dog in the house either, I have another Springer Spaniel who i thought she would find comfort in and reflect the way he behaves but she is totes not interest in him in the slightest lol. Only me. I feel worshipped haha, but i know it is very bad for her.

 

[Waggy Tales Blog]

Bless her, she's found her soulmate and she's not letting you go. Don't fuss her before you leave and when you get back, this way she will learn that you come and go often, it's normal. Three weeks isn't long at all, especially for an ex-puppy farm dog, take baby steps, she has a lot of different things to deal with. In her mind, you saved her, no wonder she worships you! Some dogs do attach themselves to one person, my chihuahua is the same so I know it's frustrating. Does your partner feed her, give her treats etc it might be helpful if she associates your partner with things that she likes. Good Luck and remember you have done a wonderful thing by rescuing her.

 

[Mimoo123]

Bless her, she's found her soulmate and she's not letting you go. Don't fuss her before you leave and when you get back, this way she will learn that you come and go often, it's normal. Three weeks isn't long at all, especially for an ex-puppy farm dog, take baby steps, she has a lot of different things to deal with. In her mind, you saved her, no wonder she worships you! Some dogs do attach themselves to one person, my chihuahua is the same so I know it's frustrating. Does your partner feed her, give her treats etc it might be helpful if she associates your partner with things that she likes. Good Luck and remember you have done a wonderful thing by rescuing her.

It's not overly frustrating for me, I can deal with it and if i tell her to go and get in bed instead of draping over me she will go, but i can imagine it is for her and my partner as he needs to be able to walk her which she refuses and for her to settle while he's with her at home and i'm working in the office. It feels unfair to keep her in her crate all day for 8 hours accept for going for a wee etc through the day and all night for another 8 hours but that's where she is happy when i'm not at home.
I have got the option to take her to my mother in law who has 3 other dogs and she settles there really well and is happy there all day, but again she needs the routine at home as its unfair for Rose to have her all week. I dont want her to think i'm taking advantage. lol.
She's going to the vets for her 2nd jab and a check up for her spay surgery on Friday so maybe they can advise me on the behaviour.

 

[merlina]

It breaks your heart to see a spaniel treated this way- they are such sensitive souls. OK well she's escaped from jail but like a lot of ex-cons finds the outside world terrifying. Ignoring her isn't tough love- it's just love, BTW so you are helping her to calm down. When you say 'too hot to handle' what does that mean? At the moment she's being overwhelmed with sensations she's been denied in her most formative years... she's literally an abused child. I agree about getting your OH and daughter to feed her so they have good associations. And about taking baby steps. Rather than wait for her behaviour to change see what you can do with her environment. If the weather is good you could try draping a blanket over her open crate (extra security!) and seeing if she can tolerate being in the garden in it- first with you and your other dog in the garden, then on her own for a few minutes. It would mean eventually she could be somewhere to pop in and out of to toilet when you're not there- but your OH is in the house. But it'll not be a quick fix so don't get disheartened.

 

[Mimoo123]

It breaks your heart to see a spaniel treated this way- they are such sensitive souls. OK well she's escaped from jail but like a lot of ex-cons finds the outside world terrifying. Ignoring her isn't tough love- it's just love, BTW so you are helping her to calm down. When you say 'too hot to handle' what does that mean? At the moment she's being overwhelmed with sensations she's been denied in her most formative years... she's literally an abused child. I agree about getting your OH and daughter to feed her so they have good associations. And about taking baby steps. Rather than wait for her behaviour to change see what you can do with her environment. If the weather is good you could try draping a blanket over her open crate (extra security!) and seeing if she can tolerate being in the garden in it- first with you and your other dog in the garden, then on her own for a few minutes. It would mean eventually she could be somewhere to pop in and out of to toilet when you're not there- but your OH is in the house. But it'll not be a quick fix so don't get disheartened.

I mean 'to hot to handle' in the respect that she paces at high speed constantly round and round trying to find me when i'm there and when i'm not there, my partner can stop her and give her a fuss but once he's done and getting on she'll start again and just go round and round the house, up and down the stairs, kitchen, bathroom, bedrooms. Shes checks everywhere over and over, but as soon as you put her in her crate she settles and goes to sleep.

She has a blanket on her crate already. x

 

[Sezzy]

I don’t have any experience with this kind of thing so can’t offer any advice, but I wonder if the puppy farmers were male and so she associates men as bad? The fact that she settles at your Mother in law seems to back this up; but doesn’t explain why she’s like it with your daughter.
Could you leave a jumper or something with your scent on it for comfort?

Owning ‘half’ a spaniel I can share this. Misty will not settle if either of us leave the house via the back door, even if one of us is still home. We have to go out of the front door otherwise she doesn’t seem to believe we’ve gone so therefore must be hiding from her I’ve witnessed this on camera and it broke my heart, so front door only for us. I’m not saying that’s what the issue is, but I do think spaniels can be a bit OCD and like routine

 

[leashedForLife]

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I'd install a tether & use it, to get her out of her crate - plus i'd put her on a schedule, so the OH gets her out every 90-mins or so, all day & evening, for just 5-mins outside to pee.
Do U have an easy-clean floor where she can be tethered, so that if she DOES pee, it's not on carpet or tongue-&-groove hardwood?

He can also ping-pong with her: out of the crate to pee every 2-hours, & WHEN she pees outdoors, not only reward her on the spot, at that time, but bring her in & give her 2-hours of tether time, within eyesight of him.
if she FAILS to pee, back into the crate; an hour later, out again, wait 5-mins w/o moving or playing or chatting at the dog or on the mobile, just wait. If she fails, back to the crate, an hour later, back out, 5-mins... Repeat ad nauseum, until she voids.

A portable tether is easy to make, i've posted the instructions many times, U just need a 2-ft hunk of 2 x 4, a short bike-cable with no more than 15 to 18-inches max of free cable between the clamps, & SWIVEL spring-clips at both ends, or 12-inches of free cable with swivels clamped to the cable, & double-ended snaps on the swivels.
Screw an eyebolt into one side at the middle of a 4-inch face, at least an inch from the edge; clip the spring-clip to the eyebolt, choose a DOOR to be the dog's station, & lay the 2 x 4 behind it, eyebolt on the floor side, facing the door. Slip the cable under the door, close the door so it latches, & clip the free end to the dog's collar.
Voila! - she can be stationed anywhere in the house where there's a closet door, an interior door, an exit door, ____ .

Give her a low-profile mat of some sort, a bathmat will do, or a vet's synthetic fleece, to give her some boundaries & a sense of place. Take the mat, 2 x 4, & cable anywhere in the house where there's a door; she can have a station in every room, so long as a door is available.
Now, she can go with U... but not clamber into yer lap, pester as U try to work, etc - & similarly with the OH, she can be "with" him yet not be pacing, nudging, etc.

A long-lasting pacifier such as an antler, cow-hoof, or her breakfast frozen in a heavy-duty Kong, will give her something happily absorbing to do; she can go from tether to outside every 90-mins to 2-hours, to pee, & go right back on it.

given her anxiety levels [pacing is an indicator], I'd use at least 3 OTC calmatives, & 2 of them would be pump-spray DAP / Adaptil, & botanical lavender-water, also in a pump spray. I'd put a pressure garment on her, too - an Anxiety Wrap, a 4-inch wide Ace bandage wrapped ala Tellington Touch [body wrap], or a super-snug, stretchy T-shirt with a minimum of 10% Lycra in the fabric.
Resale & GoodWill / charity shops carry used clothing; any stretchy shirt with short sleeves will do, but look for Lycra specifically. [A sleeveless shirt will slip off a dog's shoulders.]
Using multiple calmatives means that whichever one works 1st helps to kick-start the other 2 - more bang for the buck. Calmatives have no side-effects, dosage risks, nor interactions with food / drink / any meds.


- terry

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[Mimoo123]

Hi Terry,

I have Lavender oil at home, can I mix that with water and use that? Would it have the same benefit. Do i spray it on her or on her bedding etc? Adaptil I will buy this evening as I've heard good reviews and i'm sure i have an elastic bandage somewhere, do they keep the wraps on all the time or is it an as and when you think you need them?

I've left my partner armed at lunch time with treats, clicker, dog basket in his office and a cow hoof. So fingers crossed this afternoon goes better than this morning. She was much better last week but i think the transition from the weekend to the weekday has thrown her off routine a little bit.

Thanks for the advise. He is expecting her to behave like our other dog and she isn't ever going to be like that without the work put in. I made him fully aware of the commitment before i brought her home. She wont take herself out for a wee doors open or not, she wont walk on the pavement off the lead, she doesn't know how. She isn't going to leave other dogs alone when you go to the park at rush hour. She hasn't learnt to ignore them. I wish i was the one working from home sometimes so i can put the training in, but at the moment its literally weekends and evenings.

 

[Mimoo123]

My partner has also noted that she drinks an awful lot and is always hungry. (On 3 meals a day at the moment) is this a sign of anxiety? Or shall i get the vet to check this?

 

[Caro Perry]

I assume she's been wormed recently? Maybe food was short in her previous life so she's making up for it now. I'd just keep an eye on her weight.

How much is "a lot" on the drinking side? If you are feeding her kibble she will drink quite a bit as she gets no water in her food. If she's on wet food she should drink less. When Harri was exhibiting kidney problems he was drinking a bowl of water or more every hour.

Hopefully as she settles in and learns to be a dog she'll become less focussed on you although I suspect you'll stay her very favourite person!

 

[Mimoo123]

She was wormed twice when she arrived at the Kennels about 6-7 weeks ago. With Milbermax the day she arrived and again a week later with Drontal when she had her first vacc.

I don't think its an awful lot considering but between the two dogs we fill to dog bowel up once a day. She is on dry food with a little bit of wet (1/4 a pouch if i'm feeling generous) as she isn't keep on it but all the while she was at the pup farm she was on wet food. Our other dog Lennie takes long drinks and not very often, she seems to take quick fast drinks and quite frequently but I personally wouldn't say to access but its my partners concern.

Out of everyone i thought id be the least favourite because i give her the boundaries and the no thats naughty but maybe that's why because dogs need structure and need to know where they stand with things.

 

[leashedForLife]

QUOTE, Mimoo123:

I have Lavender oil at home, can I mix that with water and use that? Would it have the same benefit.
Do i spray [directly] on her, or on her bedding, etc?

Adaptil I'll buy this evening, as I've heard good reviews, & i'm sure i have an elastic bandage somewhere, do they keep the wraps on all the time or is it "as and when" you think you need them?
_____________________________________
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Unfortunately, essential oils only mix with oils, & they're too intense to use solo - I would spring for lavender-water, which is much lighter, won't stain, etc, & can go directly on her bed, her collar, a T-shirt, etc, without making a mess.
What U can do with the lavender-oil is introduce the scent, & positively associate that scent with security, safety, calm, etc.
Until it's paired with a sense of safety, U can't really take it on the road.
* take a clean cotton ball or cotton-pad, the sort used to wipe foundation or blusher on [or off, after].
* put it on a washable glass or china saucer, not a collectible
* drip just 2 or 3 drops, max, of lavender-oil onto the cotton
* put it somewhere above dog-reach, preferably over something warm - the TV, the 'frig, etc, so rising heat diffuses the scent

Do this in the evening, when U are at home, after dinner - sometime when the house is quiet, no visitors are there, & the telly isn't booming a Hollywood chase-film with cops racing after bad guys, sirens blaring, & gunshots!... Some quiet music, maybe string instrumental, or a sample of Music for Dogs' Ears. [Maybe hubby could read, or be on-line for a bit.]
Either tether or crate her, or put her on a waist-leash [hands free] so she cannot pace; give her a pacifier to keep her busy, U can even hold a bone or a big antler-hunk for her to gnaw, so she doesn't need to hold it; U hold it for a few minutes to get her hooked, then lay it down.
Give her about 20 to 30-mins to relax with the lavender; then wrap it in a bag, & discard it.
Repeat that scenario about 5 times, each time for 20 to 30-mins, in a controlled, relaxed setting, at home.

Once it's been solidly paired with calm, content, safe, U can use the scent of lavender to CREATE a sense of safety when she's stressed. For every 2 to 3 times an associated calmative is used under STRESS, it needs a recharge - another 20 to 30-mins of the calmative in a controlled, safe, familiar, relaxed setting.

Similarly, the pressure-garment gets associated B4 use - so I'd start with the lavender-oil diffused from a cotton-ball on a saucer, get that really solid with about 5 exposures [lavender = safe], & then i'd use the lavender to make the pressure-garment also a "safe" thing. And once again, it takes at least 5 wearings, 20 to 30-mins each, to get the pressure-garment to be connected to "safe" in the dog's mind.
[And the pressure-garment will also need to be detoxed, when U begin using it UNDER STRESS - otherwise it gets connected to stress instead of safety, & becomes a cue to worry! ]
EDIT:
so to have both the scent of lavender AND the allover squeeze of a pressure garment = safe in the dog's mind, we're talking at least 10 sessions of 20 to 30-mins each, over a week or so; about 5-hours, total, minimum.

Does all that make sense?

- terry

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[leashedForLife]

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this is a really-good lavender water -

Bulgarian Lavender Water 250 ml Spray - Alteya Organics

Certified organic, farmers' co-op produced. Excellent quality.

as usual, i don't get a dime or any other consideration - this is something i've used & found to be stellar.
[I bought the 500-ml size, spray bottle.]
- terry

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[leashedForLife]

QUOTE, Mimoo123:

My partner has also noted that she drinks an awful lot and is always hungry. (On 3 meals a day ATM)

is this a sign of anxiety? Or shall i get the vet to check this?
__________________________________
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She's an adult - was she seriously underwt on arrival? Or just lean?
lean BTW is good; pudgy is not good, as every extra pound adds to many chronic disease risks & shortens the dog's lifespan, plus affects the health of joints. // Lean is much-better than fat, & try to get some conditioning on her, too - meaning not "just lean" but muscled with it. Skinny & weak isn't the ideal, LOL.

There are body-condition scoring scales with drawings - I'll post one. U should be able to easily palpate each of her ribs with minimal pressure, just feeling with yer fingertips, & her last 2 ribs should be just visible when she's standing. Her SPINE should not be visible; the angle of her shoulder blade should be clearly seen, not rounded with fat, & her hip-bones should NOT be seen.
Her ribs should be followed by a distinct tuck-up as her belly rises; her waist should be clearly visible from above, & her shoulders seen from above should always be the widest point of her body - never her ribs!, nor her BUTT. Her butt should be about 2/3 the width of her shoulders.

If she wasn't badly underwt, i wouldn't feed 3 full meals / day, & i would try to get as much of her meals delivered as REWARDS for training as possible - she does X to get a tablespoon full of her brekkie --- or put it into a Kong & freeze it, or into a food-puzzle to be dribbled out as she works at it.
This will keep her busier & lower her stress.
Buster Cubes are great for dry kibble; wet stuff or moistened kibble can be put in a Kong & frozen overnite [Kong point-down in a Qt yogurt cup]. There are all sorts of food dispensers, Tug-A-Jug is a good one.

Dogs are opportunistic eaters - if it's there, THEY WILL EAT IT.
That's not "hunger", it's just dogs being dogs; they're scavengers & don't have pockets, the only way to carry food off is to put it in yer belly. :shrug:
That's why dogs can get so obese when ppl respond to begging by feeding. Dogs are like kids - offer them a milk-shake after a 7-course meal of rich foods, & they'll drink it all. Adult humans are a little better about controlling their intake - but not much.

- terry

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[merlina]

Thought you might have a look at this. Many Tears Rescue in South Wales has been rehoming puppy farm dogs for decades. Their fosters must have a huge amount of experience of what works. Good luck.

http://www.manytearsrescue.org/pdfs/InfoOnExBreedingDogs.pdf

 

[Mimoo123]

QUOTE, Mimoo123:

My partner has also noted that she drinks an awful lot and is always hungry. (On 3 meals a day ATM)

is this a sign of anxiety? Or shall i get the vet to check this?
__________________________________
.

She's an adult - was she seriously underwt on arrival? Or just lean?
lean BTW is good; pudgy is not good, as every extra pound adds to many chronic disease risks & shortens the dog's lifespan, plus affects the health of joints. // Lean is much-better than fat, & try to get some conditioning on her, too - meaning not "just lean" but muscled with it. Skinny & weak isn't the ideal, LOL.

There are body-condition scoring scales with drawings - I'll post one. U should be able to easily palpate each of her ribs with minimal pressure, just feeling with yer fingertips, & her last 2 ribs should be just visible when she's standing. Her SPINE should not be visible; the angle of her shoulder blade should be clearly seen, not rounded with fat, & her hip-bones should NOT be seen.
Her ribs should be followed by a distinct tuck-up as her belly rises; her waist should be clearly visible from above, & her shoulders seen from above should always be the widest point of her body - never her ribs!, nor her BUTT. Her butt should be about 2/3 the width of her shoulders.

If she wasn't badly underwt, i wouldn't feed 3 full meals / day, & i would try to get as much of her meals delivered as REWARDS for training as possible - she does X to get a tablespoon full of her brekkie --- or put it into a Kong & freeze it, or into a food-puzzle to be dribbled out as she works at it.
This will keep her busier & lower her stress.
Buster Cubes are great for dry kibble; wet stuff or moistened kibble can be put in a Kong & frozen overnite [Kong point-down in a Qt yogurt cup]. There are all sorts of food dispensers, Tug-A-Jug is a good one.

Dogs are opportunistic eaters - if it's there, THEY WILL EAT IT.
That's not "hunger", it's just dogs being dogs; they're scavengers & don't have pockets, the only way to carry food off is to put it in yer belly. :shrug:
That's why dogs can get so obese when ppl respond to begging by feeding. Dogs are like kids - offer them a milk-shake after a 7-course meal of rich foods, & they'll drink it all. Adult humans are a little better about controlling their intake - but not much.

- terry

.

I would say she’s on the skinny side but not underweight - pure due to the fact she’s getting so much exercise that’s she’s never ever had she shed quite a bit over the first few days but is putting it on. At the Kennels she had access to ad-lib food and wasn’t over weight. I would satay she was about right but it’s only drawn my attention because my partner has said she’s been manic for the bins etc today and restless but no sooner had she eaten her lunch she settled and behaved the rest of the day. Just all seems. Bit odd to me It feels like everything I knew about dogs after owning them for 10+ years has been turned upside down

 

[Mimoo123]

Thought you might have a look at this. Many Tears Rescue in South Wales has been rehoming puppy farm dogs for decades. Their fosters must have a huge amount of experience of what works. Good luck.

http://www.manytearsrescue.org/pdfs/InfoOnExBreedingDogs.pdf

Hi marlina, just had a read an some apply some don’t. To be honest she isn’t actually scared of much! Which is surprising, but she isn’t keen on going outside but will if I am with her but she is definitely not afraid lol I fact she embraces her new life a bit to over confidently! But she’s turned me into her comfort blanket and won’t give in till I get home

 

[Mimoo123]

I would say she’s on the skinny side but not underweight - pure due to the fact she’s getting so much exercise that’s she’s never ever had she shed quite a bit over the first few days but is putting it on. At the Kennels she had access to ad-lib food and wasn’t over weight. I would satay she was about right but it’s only drawn my attention because my partner has said she’s been manic for the bins etc today and restless but no sooner had she eaten her lunch she settled and behaved the rest of the day. Just all seems. Bit odd to me It feels like everything I knew about dogs after owning them for 10+ years has been turned upside down

QUOTE, Mimoo123:

My partner has also noted that she drinks an awful lot and is always hungry. (On 3 meals a day ATM)

is this a sign of anxiety? Or shall i get the vet to check this?
__________________________________
.

She's an adult - was she seriously underwt on arrival? Or just lean?
lean BTW is good; pudgy is not good, as every extra pound adds to many chronic disease risks & shortens the dog's lifespan, plus affects the health of joints. // Lean is much-better than fat, & try to get some conditioning on her, too - meaning not "just lean" but muscled with it. Skinny & weak isn't the ideal, LOL.

There are body-condition scoring scales with drawings - I'll post one. U should be able to easily palpate each of her ribs with minimal pressure, just feeling with yer fingertips, & her last 2 ribs should be just visible when she's standing. Her SPINE should not be visible; the angle of her shoulder blade should be clearly seen, not rounded with fat, & her hip-bones should NOT be seen.
Her ribs should be followed by a distinct tuck-up as her belly rises; her waist should be clearly visible from above, & her shoulders seen from above should always be the widest point of her body - never her ribs!, nor her BUTT. Her butt should be about 2/3 the width of her shoulders.

If she wasn't badly underwt, i wouldn't feed 3 full meals / day, & i would try to get as much of her meals delivered as REWARDS for training as possible - she does X to get a tablespoon full of her brekkie --- or put it into a Kong & freeze it, or into a food-puzzle to be dribbled out as she works at it.
This will keep her busier & lower her stress.
Buster Cubes are great for dry kibble; wet stuff or moistened kibble can be put in a Kong & frozen overnite [Kong point-down in a Qt yogurt cup]. There are all sorts of food dispensers, Tug-A-Jug is a good one.

Dogs are opportunistic eaters - if it's there, THEY WILL EAT IT.
That's not "hunger", it's just dogs being dogs; they're scavengers & don't have pockets, the only way to carry food off is to put it in yer belly. :shrug:
That's why dogs can get so obese when ppl respond to begging by feeding. Dogs are like kids - offer them a milk-shake after a 7-course meal of rich foods, & they'll drink it all. Adult humans are a little better about controlling their intake - but not much.

- terry

.