Toy size Puppy wee time advice

[Jack chi]

Hi I am new to the dog forum and looking for some help and advice. We have a 6 month Jack Chi puppy and a 4 year of the same breed. The puppies toileting is causing us problems as she is unpredictable. She can go through the night with no problems and 3 - 4 hours during the morning and evening before we take her out to do a wee. The problem is that a couple of other times during the day she will pester to go out 3 times in an hour doing a wee each time. We thought it might be a behaviour issue but if we ignore her after her first visit then 10 minutes later she will wee in the house. She has seen the vet and a UTI was negative, we have tried putting her in a crate but she gets distressed. During the day the two dogs do play fight and chase each other so we thought this may be causing the problem as she may drink more after playing. But we think that at 6 months she should be able to hold her wee longer than 3 times in an hour. She is a tiny puppy more chihuahua than Jack Russell as she only weighs 2.5kg. We would appreciate any help or advice for us to understand why she wants to wee 3 times in an hour when we know other times she can hold it in.

 

[JoanneF]

Some pups do just take longer to develop control. I personally would be setting up a good routine, proactively taking her out more often than she needs and not waiting for her to ask (and I'd err on the side of caution and do it hourly). The more successful toilets she has outside, and is generously rewarded for, the quicker she will learn that holding on to her toilet is worth it to earn her reward. Reward immediately so it's clear it's for toileting and not for anything else, and don't react at all to indoor toilets in case she thinks you are cross at her for toileting as opposed to toileting indoors. Just clean up with an enzymatic cleaner and leave it down for ten minutes to work properly before you wipe it up.

 

[Finsky]

I've got 2 small dogs too and younger one is same age as yours...and yes, similar things happening here too.
I've put it down to the amount mine play. They play a lot, get thirsty and what goes in have to come out too.
Mine likes to chew a lot too...and that makes the pup thirsty. Mine is also little unsure going out in dark, particular on her own and when it is raining or very windy....so she has to have company of either us or the other dog...and patience to wait that she actually does her job rather than forage around garden and forget what she was there to do.
I would say, since you've made sure it is not a medical thing...it could well be down to its activity levels. Some days they are more 'bonkers' and others not...that can vary so much even during day. Youngsters haven't reach their routine quite yet and unlike a single dog that will get on with the routine with you and will be in calmer situation, two dogs get distraction from each others company...hence the younger one will take little longer to 'get there'.
Going out and about will help a lot as then they are less active/busy indoors. But it is understandable that this time of the year there is not that many daylight hours, so we are left looooong dark evenings to spend all that puppy energy and drink...and wee...and have those mishaps.
I'll carry on with the toilet thing as usual and each week there is less and less accidents, but since we don't tend to have many 'quiet days' from playing..I'm not expecting the control issue to resolve in a hurry.
Does it sound familiar?

 

[Jack chi]

Hi JoanneF thanks for your advice we did take her out hourly but found it difficult to reward her with even small treats because she is tiny she started eating less at meal times. We never react to mishaps and are fortunate we have hard floors not carpet. As she has got older taking her out hourly didn’t work she just wanted to play not wee. It is when she decides to go out 3 times in a short space of time we find difficult to understand. But willing to try anything that may help so will look at a better routine.
QUOTE="JoanneF, post: 1196527, member: 88784"]Some pups do just take longer to develop control. I personally would be setting up a good routine, proactively taking her out more often than she needs and not waiting for her to ask (and I'd err on the side of caution and do it hourly). The more successful toilets she has outside, and is generously rewarded for, the quicker she will learn that holding on to her toilet is worth it to earn her reward. Reward immediately so it's clear it's for toileting and not for anything else, and don't react at all to indoor toilets in case she thinks you are cross at her for toileting as opposed to toileting indoors. Just clean up with an enzymatic cleaner and leave it down for ten minutes to work properly before you wipe it up.[/QUOTE]

 

[Finsky]

Hi I am new to the dog forum and looking for some help and advice. We have a 6 month Jack Chi puppy and a 4 year of the same breed. The puppies toileting is causing us problems as she is unpredictable. She can go through the night with no problems and 3 - 4 hours during the morning and evening before we take her out to do a wee. The problem is that a couple of other times during the day she will pester to go out 3 times in an hour doing a wee each time. We thought it might be a behaviour issue but if we ignore her after her first visit then 10 minutes later she will wee in the house. She has seen the vet and a UTI was negative, we have tried putting her in a crate but she gets distressed. During the day the two dogs do play fight and chase each other so we thought this may be causing the problem as she may drink more after playing. But we think that at 6 months she should be able to hold her wee longer than 3 times in an hour. She is a tiny puppy more chihuahua than Jack Russell as she only weighs 2.5kg. We would appreciate any help or advice for us to understand why she wants to wee 3 times in an hour when we know other times she can hold it in.

Something else came to my mind....
What food and treats is you pup on? Particular some type of treats can make dogs really thirsty and they get too much of them...well..it will cause all sorts of issues.

 

[Jack chi]

Thanks Finsky, yes what you say sounds very familiar nice to know others have the same issues.

I've got 2 small dogs too and younger one is same age as yours...and yes, similar things happening here too.
I've put it down to the amount mine play. They play a lot, get thirsty and what goes in have to come out too.
Mine likes to chew a lot too...and that makes the pup thirsty. Mine is also little unsure going out in dark, particular on her own and when it is raining or very windy....so she has to have company of either us or the other dog...and patience to wait that she actually does her job rather than forage around garden and forget what she was there to do.
I would say, since you've made sure it is not a medical thing...it could well be down to its activity levels. Some days they are more 'bonkers' and others not...that can vary so much even during day. Youngsters haven't reach their routine quite yet and unlike a single dog that will get on with the routine with you and will be in calmer situation, two dogs get distraction from each others company...hence the younger one will take little longer to 'get there'.
Going out and about will help a lot as then they are less active/busy indoors. But it is understandable that this time of the year there is not that many daylight hours, so we are left looooong dark evenings to spend all that puppy energy and drink...and wee...and have those mishaps.
I'll carry on with the toilet thing as usual and each week there is less and less accidents, but since we don't tend to have many 'quiet days' from playing..I'm not expecting the control issue to resolve in a hurry.
Does it sound familiar?

 

[Jack chi]

we have reduced the treats because she is so small she was eating less at mealtimes.

Something else came to my mind....
What food and treats is you pup on? Particular some type of treats can make dogs really thirsty and they get too much of them...well..it will cause all sorts of issues.

 

[Finsky]

Thanks Finsky, yes what you say sounds very familiar nice to know others have the same issues.

All kind of excitement..fun, fear etc can stimulate their bladder to work little bit over time and when they've not quite learned to control it, accidents happen. And being young and excitable does not help...yours have terrier in the mix and they are mildly put, lively sort of dogs It will sort itself out....give it time and carry on 'training'...you pup will keep you on your toes for some while yet.

 

[JudyN]

I wouldn't not treat - as long as you reduce her meals accordingly, that's fine. Assuming she's happy to have healthy food (e.g. teatime kibble) as treats, that is.

 

[Finsky]

we have reduced the treats because she is so small she was eating less at mealtimes.

As JudyN already mentioned.
What if you don't treat at all but give something 'natural' to chew on as a 'desert' after they've eaten their food.
Not only it would be good for their teeth but eating their proper meal ensure they get their vital nutrients for their health.
Mine have variety of 'deserts' that I vary from day to day...tripe sticks, rabbit ears, pizzles, beef hide, those chicken wrapped sticks, turkey necks, just plain rawhide sticks..etc etc.
Because mine get excitable easily, giving them a something to chew after food also calm them down or otherwise it will be fun and games with full tummies.
Yeah...they would live with treats if they would have anything to say about it

 

[JoanneF]

we have reduced the treats

This isn't a time to hold back. It's when the ability to hold her toilet comes together with the desire to hold it (in order to earn her reward) that toilet training clicks. But the reward pieces can be healthy and minuscule - roast chicken or frankfurter sausage cut into pieces the size of a grain of rice for example.

 

[JoanneF]

What if you don't treat at all but give something 'natural' to chew on as a 'desert' after they've eaten their food.

but the reward for toileting outside has to be there and then, so it's clearly for toileting and not for anything else.

 

[JudyN]

It does sound as if she does know where to go though, so rewards might not be the answer. I would try to keep a record of when she eats, drinks, plays, sleeps, wees, and poos, and try to spot a pattern - is there a specific time of day, or activity, when she needs to go out a lot? Could she be going more when she's 'building up' for a poo?

 

[JoanneF]

It does sound as if she does know where to go though, so rewards might not be the answer.

I get what you are saying - my thinking was that although she knows where she ought to go, she is choosing not to wait (maybe what she is already doing is more fun and she doesn't want to halt it to go outside) so by making the reward for outside toilets of higher value, the choice to go out is more appealing?

 

[JudyN]

I get what you are saying - my thinking was that although she knows where she ought to go, she is choosing not to wait (maybe what she is already doing is more fun and she doesn't want to halt it to go outside) so by making the reward for outside toilets of higher value, the choice to go out is more appealing?

I was wondering more if knowing she'd get a really good reward for going outside, she'd just ask to go out more and more.... Just things for the OP to contemplate and see what seemed to ring true for their dog.

 

[Jack chi]

Thanks for all your input and advice. What we can’t fathom out is she will go out and have a wee getting praise. We then assume she has emptied her bladder and shouldn’t need to go again for a while. But 15 - 20 minutes later she indicates she wants to go again so we take her out and she does another wee followed by another within 20 minutes. This will only happen around twice during the day the rest of the time she is ok waiting. As JudyN said perhaps keep a log to see if there is a pattern. In the past we have only had medium and large puppy’s and our other Jack Chi is more Jack Russel weighing 5.4 kg. We have never had one as small as the new puppy. When adult she will only weigh about 2.7 kg so we don’t know if toy breed puppy’s find it harder to control their bladder until 12 months. Also she has not yet been spayed as vet advised to wait until after first season.

 

[DixD]

If it’s not medical, It COULD be the reward for going out and doing something, JudyN, as you suggest. Like the behaviour I accidentally created by treating Che for coming back after widdling on a tree. instead of understanding the reward as a treat for coming when called, he now rushes off to widdle on trees, even if he has to go a distance to do it! He is so cute and earnest, and comes back at a rate of knots, so I keep treating him and reinforcing the habit! He doesn’t do it all the time, but, once he’s thought about doing it, he then thinks what a great idea it is, and keeps repeating it, until distracted.

I would be tempted to think the tree widdling was a one off, but I also trained him to stop 2on/2off on the garden A-frame, only I had the bottom of the frame, at the edge of the artificial grass, and, when I put a jump there, he stopped immediately he went over it, and froze until I said “Go!”. He associated landing on the artificial grass with stopping, not the bottom of the frame.

So, definitely worth looking at, whether, like Che, she is very astute and logical. She could have kind of backchained herself, as they say in “clicker parlance”.

 

[JoanneF]

I love it when we accidentally train something totally different from what we are trying! But seriously, these are great examples of how something we think of as being perfectly logical isn't quite so much so for the dog.