Speying

[dawn]

Having just been 'speyed' myself I thought this the appropriate time to broach this delecate subject once again.

For anyone considering having their bitch routinely speyed PLEASE think seriously about this matter. This is a major opetation and takes a long time both physically and emotionally to get over.

We have always believed that bitches should only be speyed for medical reasons and NOT for convenience. If you cant manage the seasons then WHY didn't you get a dog instead. Having had this operation has only made my feelings stronger against speying.

A dog is unable to speak out for itself and tell how much it is hurting and feeling and beleive u me it isn't very pleasent so I will speak on behalf of all those poor unfortunate bitches who are about to be put under the knife PLEASE THINK TWICE.

Bitches who come from rescue, I can understand the reasoning behind why the authorities insist on have them speyed, I dont necesarily agree but can live with it.

I am sorry if this offends anyone but how I am feeling at the moment I feel I need to speak out and represent our lovable four legged female friends. :wub:

 

[lalena]

i agree with you whole heartedly :thumbsup:

 

[OEH]

I completely agree with you, well said :thumbsup: .

It is noticeable that Nana (a speyed rescue) gets treated very differently by the others, and also behaves very immaturely- she was speyed at 7 months, before her first season :rant: and I am sure that this is the cause of this (though better than being PTS which is what the pound wanted to do)

 

[dessie]

I'm with you on this one Dawn. I ask prospective purchasers if they intend to have a bitch puppy spayed and if they affirm then I tell them they will have to buy one from someone else in that case!!!

 

[jools]

Difficult one for me. From a rescue point, knowing how many are PTS in this area particularly, there is no option but to neuter, we can't home all that there are.

Folly, mum to my 2 girls is also now nuetered, having seen a friends Afghan bitch with pyo, I never want to see one of mine with it.

Including rescues, I have looked after 32 neutered bitches (and 4 dogs), none have seemed to treat it as any thing other than inconvenient - being kept on lead excercise for 10 days after. Mia was neutered 12 days ago - if you had seen her running on Monday after she had had her stitches out, you wouldn't have believed she had been "done."

Any vet who will neuter a puppy wants their heads seeing to, they must be allowed to have a season first - they need to mature and know what sex they are. The rescues vets will not touch a bitch until she has had a season, they point out that on top of the reasons I have given, it is a much more difficult op. Everything is very small and much more fiddly.

I wonder if you had a "rough" surgeon Dawn, I was "done" several years ago and was back at work 2 days after, just a bit tired. A few years after that I had a full hysterectomy, I navigated on a very rough rally 11 days after - yes I felt it, but I would have done it again the day after. I really think you have been unlucky.

(Good Lord, I'm giving my medical history on k9!!!!)

I hope you are soon feeling much better, :luck: we want to see the usual happy Dawn at shows!! :luck: :cheers: :thumbsup: :luck:

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

:blink: i do not agree!....whippets are not a very common dog and therefore their numbers are small in comparison to other breeds so its easier to have an opinion about whippets being bred than with other breeds....

if you have ever worked with animals and held them while they were put down im sure you would not have the same opinion

the problem is simply too many dogs :angry:

....pyometra and mammary tumours are one of the most horrific conditions caused by a bitch not being spayed before a first season and completley preventable...i know we do not do this with humans but do not make the mistake of comparing dogs to us....if you had to spend your whole life with hormones to mate and have puppies and could not fulfill those needs how frustrated would you be...that is cruel in my opinion!

i could go on about the dogs who have heartbreaking phantom pregnancies and the dogs who go missing and get hit by cars while out searching for a mate etc....

all the puppies dumped because of "accidents"

so to anyone reading this thread i would try to look at all sides of the arguement before making a decision...

i intend to get gypsy spayed at 8 months...the arguement before or after season is my only thing to decide at the moment :b

and as for becoming incontinent in old age i do not think there is enough evidence to say this occurs and if it may happen the risk does not outweigh all the above arguements in my opinion

im sure most people are responsible on this forum but if you look at the bigger picture in the dog rescue world its very different

 

[dessie]

....pyometra and mammary tumours are one of the most horrific conditions caused by a bitch not being spayed before a first season and completley preventable
Hmm....... I don't think that is necessarily true.  Yes, spaying a bitch would prevent either of those occurrences but I don't think you can say they are caused by a bitch NOT being spayed.

...i know we do not do this with humans but do not make the mistake of comparing dogs to us....if you had to spend your whole life with hormones to mate and have puppies and could not  fulfill those needs how frustrated would you be...that is cruel in my opinion!

And now you are anthropomorphising!!! 

and as for becoming incontinent in old age i do not think there is  enough evidence to say this occurs

But you have risked major surgery for a condition that may or may not happen so that negates your argument about preventing pyo and mammary tumours which may or may not have happened had the bitch not been spayed!!!

 

Are you therefore saying it is OK for a bitch to become incontinent because she has been spayed but not OK for her to take her chances on developing a pyometra (which can be treated and cured in some cases) or mammary tumours??

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[lalena]

is a bit like making all women get mastectomies (sp?) because they MIGHT develope breast cancer :wacko:

of course there are many things which can happen by not spaying, but surgery should not be the first answer to hypotheticals. look at the family history..if a bitch comes from a line where such problems are the norm, then fair enough, she is more likely to suffer those problems but in a healthy family, the likelihood of it happening is very slim. if a bitch is too small to have pups safely, then yes, spaying is the answer. ambers litter sister was such a one. but i'd still recommend letting the bitch have a season, maybe two, to allow her to mature.

if amber ever suffers uterine problems, yes i'd spay her, but i wont put her through surgery until needed. i'd rather leave her as nature intended.

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

is a bit like making all women get mastectomies (sp?) because they MIGHT develope breast cancer :wacko: of course there are many things which can happen by not spaying, but surgery should not be the first answer to hypotheticals. look at the family history..if a bitch comes from a line where such problems are the norm, then fair enough, she is more likely to suffer those problems   but in a healthy family, the likelihood of it happening is very slim. if a bitch is too small to have pups safely, then yes, spaying is the answer. ambers litter sister was such a one. but i'd still recommend letting the bitch have a season, maybe two, to allow her to mature.

if amber ever suffers uterine problems, yes i'd spay her, but i wont put her through surgery until needed. i'd rather leave her as nature intended.

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nature causes earthquakes and cancer should we leave them too?

i agree letting a bitch have a season if the circumstances make that sensible but it is not like all women having a mastectomy because that is not the major reason for doing it ....

it is all the other reasons i said that make it important....you have ignored all the other reasons?

 

[Lolcoe]

Dawn....please dont say any more bad things....(fingers in ears...laalaalaalaa) im having it done soon! Got stapled 2 years ago, that was bad enough

One of my old greys had pyo and it was awful and i would never let it happen again but the 3 bitches i have at the mo may be bred from so im hanging fire.

Surgeons dont go into things lightly and when theres a higher chance of getting something awful they still wont operate until you're 'past it' (in my own experience) so thats what im gonna do wit dogs....well i think so....

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

....pyometra and mammary tumours are one of the most horrific conditions caused by a bitch not being spayed before a first season and completley preventable
Hmm....... I don't think that is necessarily true.  Yes, spaying a bitch would prevent either of those occurrences but I don't think you can say they are caused by a bitch NOT being spayed.

...i know we do not do this with humans but do not make the mistake of comparing dogs to us....if you had to spend your whole life with hormones to mate and have puppies and could not  fulfill those needs how frustrated would you be...that is cruel in my opinion!

And now you are anthropomorphising!!! 

and as for becoming incontinent in old age i do not think there is  enough evidence to say this occurs

But you have risked major surgery for a condition that may or may not happen so that negates your argument about preventing pyo and mammary tumours which may or may not have happened had the bitch not been spayed!!!

 

Are you therefore saying it is OK for a bitch to become incontinent because she has been spayed but not OK for her to take her chances on developing a pyometra (which can be treated and cured in some cases) or mammary tumours??

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ok...comment 1...the way in which i worded that sentence was not absolutely as i meant it...but i think you know what i was meaning?

comment 2...thats is a fair enough comment!

comment 3 and 4 you are ignoring all the other reasons why spaying a bitch for the average person with a dog is sensible...what are your comments on those?

i think you not selling a puppy to someone who would spay it is extreme and most people would think that quite insane

i think there are many people with closed minds on this forum who jump on peoples comments and have no interest in discussing anything within a bigger picture....this is a forum for people to express their opinion and i am not frightened of doing that .....this forum would be a much better place if the "other people" with different views to others on this site were allowed to feel that they can have an opinion too....this forum bullies people at times and the less outspoken people never have their say....and the views of the few are giving many people only one side of an opinion....i will continue to try to be open minded and let readers of the threads see 2 sides

this comment is aimed at many comments by many people :angry:

 

[dessie]

Lost me now. What have earthquakes and having to hold dogs that are being PTS got to do with unspayed bitches?????

You will always get irresponsible people owning dogs but with all this neutering going on there does not seem to be an end to unwanted dogs so the fact some of us do not agree with having every bitch go through major surgery cannot be the sole reason for dogs ending up in rescue!!!

 

[BeeJay]

Firstly

>i do not agree!....whippets are not a very common dog and therefore their numbers are small in comparison to other breeds so its easier to have an opinion about whippets being bred than with other breeds....

This thread was started in General Discussion Whippets therefore we are talking about whippets not other breeds.

IMO if a breeder can't trust a bitch puppy buyer to do the best for that bitch then they shouldn't be selling her to them. So there should be no need for bitches to be having unwanted/unnecessary litters. So no need to be resorting to major surgery to prevent unwanted litters being born.

Dogs only roam because they are allowed to. Bitches only get in whelp because they are allowed to. Neither is a cause to neuture.

I strongly suspect that in GB most unwanted dogs that are being pts have been purposely bred. Most lurchers will have, most greyhounds will have, most fram bred collies will have etc etc.

 

[BeeJay]

Off topic but I like your avatar Dawn (one of my fav programmes) and sorry to read that you are still feeling sore.

 

[dawn]

Well said Dessie I was just about to reply to Whitecross but you have answered with my thoughts exactly (w00t)

i think you not selling a puppy to someone who would spay it is extreme and most people would think that quite insane

We put in our puppy contract that we do not want the owners to have dogs done either so I suppose we are doubley insane.

This is a subject which people have very strong views about and as I said in my original post because this is all going on in my life right now I thought I had to share how I felt.

IMO if a breeder can't trust a bitch puppy buyer to do the best for that bitch then they shouldn't be selling her to them. So there should be no need for bitches to be having unwanted/unnecessary litters. So no need to be resorting to major surgery to prevent unwanted litters being born.
Dogs only roam because they are allowed to. Bitches only get in whelp because they are allowed to. Neither is a cause to neuture.

Well said Bee Jay

We care about what happens to the puppies we breed, and feel resposible for them for the duration of their lives. New owners are very carefully vetted and if we felt that they were not the right kind of owners they would NOT be having one of our puppies.

Why put a bitch through MAJOR surgery if it is not necessary?

The rescue side is a different kettle of fish, those poor unfortune dogs have either come from unfortunate circumstances or the kind of owners who are not responsible.

 

[BeeJay]

>We put in our puppy contract that we do not want the owners to have dogs done either so I suppose we are doubley insane.

Ah out of the mouths of babes. This is such a good thread Dawn so far both you and Dessie have admitted in writing to us all that you are insane. I'm so glad that you are both finally admitting the truth openly. You'll be able to get the help that you both need now. :thumbsup: :teehee:

 

[dawn]

Good grief I think its the 2nd time this year Dessie and I have agreed! :huggles:

Maybe we need another forum for insane whippet owners?? after all the greyhound folk have got one LOL

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

Firstly>i do not agree!....whippets are not a very common dog and therefore their numbers are small in comparison to other breeds so its easier to have an opinion about whippets being bred than with other breeds....

This thread was started in General Discussion Whippets therefore we are talking about whippets not other breeds. 

IMO if a breeder can't trust a bitch puppy buyer to do the best for that bitch then they shouldn't be selling her to them.  So there should be no need for bitches to be having unwanted/unnecessary litters.  So no need to be resorting to major surgery to prevent unwanted litters being born.

Dogs only roam because they are allowed to.  Bitches only get in whelp because they are allowed to.  Neither is a cause to neuture. 

I strongly suspect that in GB most unwanted dogs that are being pts have been purposely bred.  Most lurchers will have, most greyhounds will have, most fram bred collies will have etc etc.

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maybe the average dog owner is not as perfect as you? wish the world was as perfect as you seem to think it is!

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

I agree with Dawn on this one. I have always had dogs becuase I would never want to get a bitch spayed. None of my dogs are castrated either, when I got zak the vet asked me if i intended to get him castrated and I said no. The vet then told me that had i said yes he would not have recommended it, and that was my vet talking. None of my dogs that I have owned have ever been castrated.

If you ask me the only reason that dogs are roaming the streets is because their owners are too preoccupied with something else to look after their dog properly or to take it out for a walk. Heaven forbid there are occassions when good owners do lose their dogs. But personally I believe that it is most of the time the people who just wake up one morning and say "I think il get a dog today".

As well all know, getting a dog is a huge commitment and not one to be taken lightly. However when you take on a bitch you have an extra commitment. Im rabbiting on now. Figured that id put my opinion on here.

 

[dawn]

maybe the average dog owner is not as perfect as you? wish the world was as perfect as you seem to think it is!

If responsible owners have a properly fenced in garden then the dogs wouldnt get out.

A bitch in season should be watched like a hawk and if it cant be watched then it should be in an escape free area alone or with other bitches, no where near the dogs.

Anyone considering getting a bitch should have thought carefully about this before going ahead and purchasing one.

so I agree with Beejay.

Dogs only roam because they are allowed to.  Bitches only get in whelp because they are allowed to.