New Member Improbable Advice From Vet?

[tobytronicstereophonic]

Thank you for accepting my membership.
I would like some advice or opinion about my inlaws' pedigree dog.
They have quite a history on getting pets on a whim and then losing interest so my wife and I end up frantically finding the unwanted pets a new home.

Fortunately we have had amazingly good fortune and each animal has been rehomed to what can only be described as the very best homes. An example: a pet rabbit went to my sister's. Rabbit gets huge rabbit pen with 20ft run and shares with another rescue rabbit. Rabbits don't like living in their new home, so rabbits kick the dog off the settee and spend their days watching tv on the sofa.

After numerous pets, I thought that would be the end. But no, last Christmas (really) they buy a pedigree dog, a female. I cannot remember the breed, but it's a medium-size dog. Initially they had plans to breed. People pointed out that it isn't a good idea, so they change their minds and take her to the vets to be neutered.

However, their vet tells them that she needs to have a litter before he can do the operation. Then - and this is the point at which I don't believe them - he also advises that male dogs also need to have been mated before he will do them too!

So, please can I have your opinions on this?
I actually do not believe a vet would give this advice.
I would do anything to stop yet another litter going to an unknown home when there are already thousands of unwanted dogs.

The mathematics simply do not work out. If every dog needed to have a litter, the UK would be overrun with unwanted puppies. I could do with some decent facts to try and persuade them not to do this. I've already told them that a neutered female dog has less chance of various cancers if she is done before coming into her first season.

And the puppies apparently go for £3-4k before anyone asks, there is quite a big financial incentive. I can see them getting fed up with the dog in a few months anyway, so I'll end up having to rehome, or take her on ourselves. Apologies for the long first post. Thank you.

 

[JoanneF]

Some old school vets still say a bitch should have a litter before neutering. I've never, ever heard that of male dogs (or at least from anyone sensible).

Can you find out the breed of the dog? I'm thinking that if you tell your in-laws which tests ought to be done on the female before breeding, the cost might put them off. Also, the bottom has fallen out of the puppy market so they could end up seriously out of pocket. The £3K days are over, except for very rare situations (top class show or working standard).

Good, responsible breeding isn't a money maker.

And - how old is their dog too?

 

[JudyN]

I'm sorry, but what your inlaws claim the vet has said is absolute codswallop. Neither females nor males have to be mated before neutering.

You might find this thread interesting: Licences for breeding Although I'm still unsure about the requirements for breeding licences and the possibility of profiting from breeding, there may be something in your local council's legislation that you can spin accordingly to try to deter them. And as JoanneF says, make sure that they are aware of the checks they should do before breeding, both on the female and the male dog.

Well done for managing to rehome their previous pets, but it's really not good that this has been necessary :-(

 

[tobytronicstereophonic]

Thank you for your replies. I'm fixing my MiL's washer this evening, so I'll find out the breed. It is a load of codswallop.
It was heatrbreaking when the Covid-19 retrictions started to lift, just how many young pedigree dogs I'd see. French Bulldogs seemed to be the most prolific.

I had a cross-collie resue dog, Meg. She came absolutely everywhere with me. Even to work. I used to go in to work at my garage on Saturday morning and we'd walk home at 1pm. I used to wonder just why I spent Saturday afternoon's sleeping. Then it dawned on me: we were walking about 60 miles/week. Running two miles each day and doing a manual job too!
I look after and rehome stray cats nowadays. Dogs are too upsetting when they pass away.
I will keep you updated and hopefully between us they will see sense. Thank you.

 

[Hemlock]

I have never, in many years of dog ownership, met a vet who advised the breeding before neutering. If anything, most vets are a bit too keen to neuter dogs before they are mature. However, back in the day (1950s-ish) there was a common belief among pet owners that a bitch had to have a litter (neutering wasn't common then - drowning unwanted puppies was). I suspect that is at root of what you are being told (let's say the vet advised it - then nobody can tell us not to).

Never heard at all that a male dog has to be bred from. Suspect the same.

 

[RGC]

I stand to be corrected but I would question the professional qualification of their vet. I stand with all the responders here - I have never come across such an irresponsible attitude to the wellbeing of animals.

 

[Feverfew]

I agree with all the above, and also suggest that you might want to consider reporting the vet to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, in part because the advice is poor, and outdated (not to say just plain wrong), but also because there may be a financial incentive to the vet (i.e., they may at a later stage offer one of their own dogs as stud etc). That is pretty rare, but it has happened.

Only one aspect makes me pause, and that is whether the owners have misunderstood the vet, who may have advised them to let the bitch have a season first. This is because bitches sometimes develop incontinence or other bladder problems if they are neutered too early, because it takes time for the urerthra and other 'plumbing' to full develop and widen. I also consider that neutering male dogs too early can exacerbate (not cause) behavioural problems.

 

[tobytronicstereophonic]

Well a big thank you for all of your replies. Both myself and partner were getting more concerned as the week went on. Brilliant news: they are now waiting for her to have the first season and getting her neutered. They'd had misunderstood the vet's advice as was suggested.
So she went to the vets again for an ear infection: the consultation and Metacam prescription? £26, so I now have a new vet to take our strays to. The old vet had started giving silly bills. £400 for minor dental work. I realise they are a business and have to make a profit, but every single bill has been at the top or over the estimate. We've spent £3k on strays since the start of the pandemic. So a happy ending.

 

[RGC]

Well a big thank you for all of your replies. Both myself and partner were getting more concerned as the week went on. Brilliant news: they are now waiting for her to have the first season and getting her neutered. They'd had misunderstood the vet's advice as was suggested.
So she went to the vets again for an ear infection: the consultation and Metacam prescription? £26, so I now have a new vet to take our strays to. The old vet had started giving silly bills. £400 for minor dental work. I realise they are a business and have to make a profit, but every single bill has been at the top or over the estimate. We've spent £3k on strays since the start of the pandemic. So a happy ending.

Yes, it’s a shame that greed or a desire for ‘the easy buck’ seems to take precedence with a certain type over the wellbeing of animals - home breeding, puppy farms, etc.
Best of luck.