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Item5-talk-in

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Smiffy@VeronnaV

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Is the lack of enthusiasm and therefore poor response to the WCRA talk in because people perceive that their views and opinions are not taken into account and then acted upon by the WCRA committee? As this would seem to be the way the committee operates why do we accept that this 'is the way it was, is and always will be' (part of the Roman Catholic Cathechism as well!!). Aren't we capable in this century of improving the WCRA committee system and making it more open and accountable to the people for whom it is relevant?

Why is the business of the committee 'secret'? We are paying to belong to this club and we don't know what is going on. Assuming that they are not a secret arm of the Templars or Masons it is reasonable to assume in this day and age that we would be given access via the club sec to the minutes of the committee meetings. (Should these minutes already be sent out via secs and we never get to see them, my apologies to the committee - but in my defence I have to say not one club to which I have belonged has ever ever disseminated this information). Neither do I mean a precis of the meeting, but the actual minutes unabridged. After all, there can be nothing in those committee meetings that the members would not want out in the public domain is there? If so, one must ask the question what and why? They aren't discussing rocket science, or defence of the realm so there is no possible reason for the committee to have pink papers. We would then have an idea of what letters had been written, what was decided and even if we would like to pursue this issue via the Whippet Club AGM should it not be dealt with to our satisfaction! Heaven forbid, democracy in action.

Now to the talk in, for the democratic process to work the committee would have to call for items for the agenda early enough to reproduce the agenda and associated papers in good time (weeks before the meeting), and then disseminate said papers to the clubs. Snail mail is good, email works for some, and they could send off to the Whippet News for inclusion in the magazine. Then we turn up, already primed, with argument and counter argument already talked about etc. After the vote, if necessary the proposal goes to the Whippet Club for ratification. It may be that the AGM of the Whippet Club will not endorse the proposal, in which case the racing fraternity bow to the superior strength of the democratic process and accept the decision of the AGM. There are some of us who are members of the Whippet Club so we get to vote twice - so we all join the Whippet Club attend the AGM and have our vote count too :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

At the moment the WCRA don't have to do any of this because they are concerned ONLY with racing and answerable ONLY to the Whippet Club and anyway the rules don't stipulate that they even HAVE to hold a talk in - so someone could put this as an item on the Whippet Club agenda or something like this on the aforementioned agenda and then get it approved by the AGM!¬ :- " :- "
 
I have been a bit disappointed at times when we've been to a talk-in, and the item is voted on and people can be heavily in favour - just for the committee to say they don't have to act on our decisions, but will think about it!

We have voted so many times to have longer straights, but to no avail :(

Also, around 13-14 years ago, any changes to racing or rules had to be voted in at the Whippet Club AGM. Without any consultation we found ourselves with an extra veteran group - no problem there, as most people seemed quite happy about it - now we hear that one group has been dropped :( Now, if you look at the bigger dogs running in veterans when this group was brought in, you might draw the same conclusion as me :- " I've already slapped my own wrist for having such a terrible thought :* Sorry, but sometimes I just have to tell it like it is, and perhaps if this had been discussed at the talk-in, I might just have voiced my concerns :unsure:
 
The old veteran groups were: 14-20lb, 21-25lb and 26-32lb. An extra group was introduced because the heavyweight group was getting so many entries. It was usually won by a 26lb dog, with the 30lb and over dogs not getting a look in. It may be interesting to take a look at which heavyweight dogs benefited in gaining VC's when the 28-32lb group came in (I seem to recall a WCRA committee members dog winning one). And now they are saying they are going back to three groups. This will result in a huge entry in the heavyweight group again, and could possibly mean quarter finals. At the same time we will continue to see groups like the 16lb and 32lb groups with five or six runners. I would like to know why this decision has been made. Who wants to see veteran racing with quarter finals? Ridiculous. :angry:
 
Yes, happened a few times this season (not sure about whether it was Champs or opens though and dont care to look atm) and not neccesary for the older boys and girls.

Although the change will suit me as I have a 26lb veteran I can see that it is not good for the veterans in general.
 
Second point - Sundance states "The old veteran groups were: 14-20lb, 21-25lb and 26-32lb. "

Not the case - depends what you call old.

In 1985 the groups were 20lbs, 25lbs & 30lbs in two lots of age

In 1986 the groups were 18lbs, 22lbs 26lbs & 30lbs for 6/7 yrs

and 20lbs, 25lbs & 30lbs for 8+yrs

1988 8+yrs changed to 22lbs & 30lbs.

1991 18lbs group got dropped for 6/7 yrs and reverted to 20lbs, 24lbs & 30lbs.

I don't know about the changes post this. One thing for sure you try something - if its works ok, if not change it. :- "

First point - I think you will find that I was WCRA Sec when the 'meetings with club reps' was instigated (and probley my fault)

However I'm a doing sort of person so if you don't like it do something about it. On the whole the WCRA DO A GOOD JOB. There aren't queues of club members lining up to stand on the committee.

Sorry about this but I'm old - I alway remember going home after a WCRA Committee meeting on a Friday night after work and going up the A12 I saw the lights at Felixstowe Dock were brighter than normal - it was the Sun coming up and I had missed Friday night - it was Sun rise Saturday morning and I hadn't been to bed yet. Now the next time someone told me what a poor job the WCRA was dong I just remember the Sun rise and thought about the 'vast salary' I was getting as Sec of the WCRA.

However, saying all this I'm happy that suggestion are aired to improve our sport!
 
Rob Rixon said:
On the whole the WCRA DO A GOOD JOB.  There aren't queues of club members lining up to stand on the committee. 
However, saying all this I'm happy that suggestion are aired to improve our sport!

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I quite agree, they do do a good job, and for that we are grateful to them. :thumbsup: I know it is a thankless task, and the committee is short on numbers because there aren't people queueing up to take up the positions.

When we raise subjects and discuss them, we're doing just that discussing - not criticising. That is what we want the WCRA to do with us - discuss changes before they are made. There is no easy way to get peoples views, as not all club secretaries are as good at getting the views of their members as our club secretary at Gloucester is, and yourself at East Anglia Rob. This is why we need a talk-in. However, there has been a lot of disappointment when the committee allows us to bring up a subject and vote on it, only to be told that the vote doesn't really count, they just want to get a feel of what we think - so consequently people say "what's the point of spending out money to travel to the talk-in, if our votes don't mean anything"?

I'm enjoying reading the opinions of others, and it's good to have a healthy debate. I just hope the WCRA committee doesn't get their hair off because we are discussing the things we would have brought up at the talk-in.

I don't think the WCRA can be short of money, so I wonder why the extra veteran group has been dropped? - I don't remember the entries being low. Sometimes they can be low in the 8 year old groups, but not all dogs are still fit to race by then. We certainly don't want quarter finals for veterans - we've been sick of them in the 24lb group - now that we're in veterans we don't want them there too :unsure: :eek:
 
I was told by a WCRA committee member today that they aren't dropping a veteran weight group, they are in fact adding a weight group. The four weight groups in the 6 and 7 year olds are to remain the same but, there is to be an extra group in the 8 years and over. In recent years there have only been two groups in the 8 years and over; n/e 22lb and n/e 32lb. This is now going to change to three groups.
 
SUNDANCE said:
I was told by a WCRA committee member today that they aren't dropping a veteran weight group, they are in fact adding a weight group.  The four weight groups in the 6 and 7 year olds are to remain the same but, there is to be an extra group in the 8 years and over.  In recent years there have only been two groups in the 8 years and over; n/e 22lb and n/e 32lb.  This is now going to change to three groups.
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Thats what I understood as did members of Cotswolds ......an extra group in the vets has the :thumbsup: from us :D
 
SUNDANCE said:
I was told by a WCRA committee member today that they aren't dropping a veteran weight group, they are in fact adding a weight group.  The four weight groups in the 6 and 7 year olds are to remain the same but, there is to be an extra group in the 8 years and over.  In recent years there have only been two groups in the 8 years and over; n/e 22lb and n/e 32lb.  This is now going to change to three groups.
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Perhaps I should have checked that information but I was going on a post which quoted

"it also gave the dates of the 4 champs (confirmed) stated that the whippet club AGM was on the 22nd March asked for nominations for WCRA committee ect.

gave the new veteran groups for champs

N/Ex ~ 14-19lb, 20-25lb, 26-32lb"

I took that to mean the "young" veterans. It's always good to have an extra group in the "old" veterans, but not sure if it's necessary, as there's rarely enough dogs to make semi finals as far as I can remember. Might make for a very cheap VC :(
 
The letter from the WCRA dated 22nd November said -

5. New Weight Groups

 

The following weight groups are to be run in 2008 for the 6-7 years olds; there is no change to the 8years and over.

 

Old weight groups 14-19lbs 20-23lbs 24-27 28-32lbs

 

New weight groups for 2008 14-19lbs 20-25lbs 26-32lbs

So only 2 weight groups for the 8yrs and over still.

Where did you get your info Hannah? Perhaps there is a new proposal going around since that letter.
 
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June Jonigk said:
  It's always good to have an extra group in the "old" veterans, but not sure if it's necessary, as there's rarely enough dogs to make semi finals as far as I can remember.  Might make for a very cheap VC  :(
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Last year at the 2nd Champs, in the old veterans there were 4 in the lights and 10 in the heavies which was more than some of the young veteran groups and even more than a couple of the main groups! In the 3rd champs there were 4 in the lights and 5 in the heavies which was the same as one of the young veteran groups. Probably no need for an extra group but maybe the split should be at 23lb or 24lb instead of 22lbs.
 
:D Looks quite sensible to me. The 23-24 is currently a large group so assuming that most of these will run later as veterans the extra group is probably justified. :thumbsup: No vets are going to want quarter finals are they? :D IMHO
 
Stripey said:
:D Looks quite sensible to me. The 23-24 is currently a large group so assuming that most of these will run later as veterans the extra group is probably justified.  :thumbsup: No vets are going to want quarter finals are they?  :D IMHO
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Yes, I agree - bring back the extra group :thumbsup:
 
Judy said:
June Jonigk said:
  It's always good to have an extra group in the "old" veterans, but not sure if it's necessary, as there's rarely enough dogs to make semi finals as far as I can remember.  Might make for a very cheap VC  :(
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Last year at the 2nd Champs, in the old veterans there were 4 in the lights and 10 in the heavies which was more than some of the young veteran groups and even more than a couple of the main groups! In the 3rd champs there were 4 in the lights and 5 in the heavies which was the same as one of the young veteran groups. Probably no need for an extra group but maybe the split should be at 23lb or 24lb instead of 22lbs.

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Very sensible - why aren't you on the WCRA Committee Judy? :oops: :b
 
I can only repeat what I was told face to face on Sunday by a WCRA committee member, 'the four 6/7 year old groups were to remain the same and an extra group was to be added to the 8/9 year olds'. Someone is obviously very confused. :wacko:
 
......... :D

5. New Weight Groups

The following weight groups are to be run in 2008 for the 8 years olds; there is no change to the 6-7 years.

Old weight groups N/E 22LBS N/E 32LBS

New weight groups for 2008 14-19lbs 20-25lbs 26-32lbs
 
Is this definite info Hannah?

Can't see why you'd want to add a group to 8 year olds - will make for very small groups, and cheap VCs - rather devalues them I'd say.

Before anyone says the groups are too big weight wise, our 15lber ran quite happily with dogs of up to 22lbs, and if it was changed to 23 or 24lb, I'm sure that would be OK too.
 
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