Idea's What Could Be Done

[JOHNG]

first of all this is not a dig at the scratch racing )

after all the bad feeling and mudslinging on here lately,and the size and way they are being bred.

What could be introduced to try and stop the way they are being bred i.e. half whippet greyhound to full greyhound.

one way could be to have a signed paper of the registered stud dog owner to say his/her dog as mated the bitch( but that would be open to abuse as well)

or put a weight restriction on like i mentioned in an earlier post this would make breeders think about breeding as mentioned above.

i know there are scratch dogs bred in the (what i think is the correct way) that have gone over say 55lb but at least it's been done right.

as i said iam not getting at scratch dogs but it's not like it used to be i.e. under 20lb whippet dog to a small sprint greyhound.

constructive ideas only please :thumbsup:

 

[davbow]

i honestly dont think that bringing in some new measure will help the situation there will always be people who bend the rules in any sport. The only people they are cheating are themselves. i think this subject needs to be dropped, fast.

 

[Paws123]

Why dont the bwra and fed buy a set of whippet traps and use them at all bend events ... :thumbsup:

 

[Vicky]

My twopenneth, it's breeding that's the issue, not the size.

As John says it was the norm to put a greyhound bitch to a small whippet stud a few years back, which resulted in mixed litters of handicap racers & scratch racers, these days they are purposely being bred so that all the litter run in the scratch.

 

[marielou]

I dont know why writing this feels like walking on egg shells but it does :b

My suggestion is that we have a rule brought in for both organisations which says its OK to outcross to a greyhound and register the progeny for racing but that those progeny cant be outcrossed to a greyhound again for two generations. I hope people can follow what Im saying.

Be nice to each other :huggles:

 

[wild whippies]

Using whippet traps is no different to putting on a weight capping system. I'd have to speak to Colin and Alison in person but I suspect that Deneside Belle struggled to get in some traps and more worryingly struggled to get out of some.

Personally I feel that there's a safety issue there where big dogs could get injured and I'd sooner run with them out of greyhound traps than watch an owner squeeze their dog into a confined space where it could risk itself to injury.

Don't get me wrong, their are dogs that I would avoid running off with, Deneside Belle isn't one of them but Quicksilver with it's railing habit would be because it poses a hazard to my own. (No offence intended here)

Will the organisations assist owners in rehoming their dogs that are no longer fit for their purpose?

It should be noted that some of these dogs bred with a greyhound bias can and do fit into whippet traps so to me it's achieving nothing.

The NNWRF's introduction of a 48lb class, I feel has been a success, I hope the BWRA have considered this option, they're may be scope for further splits...

Whilst I agree some individuals are breeding towards the greyhound, there is no obligation to buy these dogs. Those that do should be prepared to accept the politics involved with owning / racing one. Many feel it's a sure fire way of owning a winning bends dog, to me it's an easy option that gives the owner little credit as a whippet racer.

I still standby my opinion that unmarked greys should be allowed to race and as such propose that both organisations split their scratch classes further and axe supreme scratch on the basis that you'd be having whippets running with greyhounds which is technically what's going on at the moment anyway.

Or maybe run supreme scratch off on the bends to a 75yd dash? now that would be interesting.

The market for these greyhound bred 'whippets' would be dead and buried as a result, leaving dogs running at the moment to still race competitvely.

It would allow those unfortunate greyhounds that didnt make the grade to find homes with racers rather than be thrown out onto the streets and prevent some of our own being rehomed as well which is what would happen if whippet traps were introduced.

Those whippet breeders who have purchased a particular greyhound for breeding purposes would be able to run their future dam, allowing it's abilties to be seen by all and hopefully gain the attraction of prospective pup owners in the future and it would also put breeding duties on the backburner for a little while.

It would increase our entries, generating a bigger income to the racing organisations.

No-one would be excluded, there'd be no bickering about the breeding of a particular dog and safety would be upheld.

For anyone who is bound to come out with the statement ''but we're whippet racing'', we are not, DNA testing would prove this without a doubt.

For those big dog owners who fear that someone with a decent greyhound is going to come whippet racing, do you honestly feel someone is going to come along with their superstar dog and run it in for a plastic trophy when they can make decent money out of it? Some scratch racers have openly admtted their dogs are capable of beating greyhounds over our racing format so they have nothing to fear in my eyes.

These are my views, lets be open and honest about it rather than discriminate in such roundabout ways.

 

[Vicky]

I dont know why writing this feels like walking on egg shells but it does :b My suggestion is that we have a rule brought in for both organisations which says its OK to outcross to a greyhound and register the progeny for racing but that those progeny cant be outcrossed to a greyhound again for two generations. I hope people can follow what Im saying.

Be nice to each other :huggles:

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Spot on Marie

 

[Paws123]

I dont know why writing this feels like walking on egg shells but it does :b My suggestion is that we have a rule brought in for both organisations which says its OK to outcross to a greyhound and register the progeny for racing but that those progeny cant be outcrossed to a greyhound again for two generations. I hope people can follow what Im saying.

Be nice to each other :huggles:

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Spot on Marie

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5 years ago this was all said at the bwra agm and the scr breeder were asked to breed smaller , but what happenned

 

[marielou]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying Jacs but I do think there is a place for actively encouraging racers to use established non ped whippet lines rather than frequent outcrossing. It might even encourage the use of some of the brilliant scratch dogs we have for stud..... so how about this

!) change the rules as I previously stated re: outcrossing to greyhound

2) both organisations adopt the upto 48lb weight group

3) both organisations introduce a super weight group of over 60lb to be run in the bends season open to both non peds and greyhounds.

In this way we would be actively promoting the non ped whippet type, improving safety, there would be no need for anyone to feel excluded or agrieved and we may see increased entries and it would promote the welfare of all the dogs.

 

[Paws123]

Using whippet traps is no different to putting on a weight capping system.

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Make the traps the same size as swallowsnest and scotlands...and if any dogs can not fit in them then tuff

Years ago all the no limits running ran from whippet traps ...dont think i remember any of the north-east scr dogs not running the straights just the bends

Have to agree with marielou its sound like a great idea on paper , but the way some people are going at present breeding and not been honest on sire or brood , i can not see it working either

 

[wild whippies]

!) change the rules as I previously stated re: outcrossing to greyhound

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I agree with it being a good idea, however, I don't trust people not to lie about the breeding on paper. The only way you could guarantee it is by enforcing DNA parentage testing and who would be liable for the costs incurred?

Using whippet traps is no different to putting on a weight capping system.

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Make the traps the same size as swallowsnest and scotlands...and if any dogs can not fit in them then tuff

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I don't like this tough luck attitude though, by exclusion your encouraging rehoming of dogs. Does Quicksilver fit into these traps Dee or have you not got the dog yet? (genuine question)

 

[sherry]

am i missing something? is there 100s of so called whippets that r actually greyhounds registering or something? if theres all this palova about 1 or 2 dogs then why dont the organisations just tell us the members whose dogs they r? its getting ridiculous now i mean is there dozens of dogs over say 55lb? i can only think of maybe 2 or 3 offhand but then again BEND racing doesnt interest me @ all. the 48lb thing to me well i havent actually decided wot i think about this. all i do know is the fed open @ scotland only saw 1 dog in the up to 48lb category.. i agree with wot marielou says though maybe have a 60lb class on the bends but then again how many scr dogs r over 60lb? bet u wud only have one or two race.

 

[Paws123]

!) change the rules as I previously stated re: outcrossing to greyhound

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I agree with it being a good idea, however, I don't trust people not to lie about the breeding on paper. The only way you could guarantee it is by enforcing DNA parentage testing and who would be liable for the costs incurred?

Using whippet traps is no different to putting on a weight capping system.

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Make the traps the same size as swallowsnest and scotlands...and if any dogs can not fit in them then tuff

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I don't like this tough luck attitude though, by exclusion your encouraging rehoming of dogs. Does Quicksilver fit into these traps Dee or have you not got the dog yet? (genuine question)

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The people who,s been accused for misleading us with breeding know exactly what they were doing with regards to racing greyhounds and breeding them as none ped racers .. i also only know of a handful of these types of dogs ... so i would say if there dogs for what ever reason can not race with any none ped organization ..then its soloy upto them breeders to re home them...i am positive the people in question have re homed greyhounds before

I do understand that some of these dogs weigh less than some 1st breed greyhound x whippet and these people will also have to loss out on racing , but don't they any way , cause i hear the majority of them saying they don't race straight just bends because the whippet traps are to small on the straights for there dogs ... i know there is a small hand full that only race the bend season for what ever there reasons ...but to me buying , breeding , schooling and racing a none ped whippet would mean , been able to race both bends and straights all year round if i wanted to ...if i only wanted to bend race i would buy a greyhound and race it at greyhound meetings ....but you always get some people that will take it that little bit further and try to con others

I am not aiming this post at anyone one person ... but to me whippets are whippet and over the years as the greyhound was introduced to the none ped breeding allowance have been made ...even up to last year the extra class 48lb was introduced for safety reasons , but where do we stop , at what point to we change the name of None ped racing to anything goes

Once we allow the doors to been opened a little bit for the small majority that has lied about there breeding for what ever reason ... there will be no stopping it and our whole heritage of none ped database is gone

 

[JOHNG]

there would be no need to have a 60lb class if the breeding was controled.

.

:- "

sorry i don't agree with that unmarked greys should be allowed to race,that's is the problem ,why should a greyhound be allowed to take the glory of winning away from a genuinely bred scratch dog(whippetxgreyhound)

 

[Karen-Coral]

Why not make big dogs over 32lb the BWRA limit ---

Run yards per pound up to 64lb limit--

or even ONE and a HALF yard per lb for bends

then have scratch racing for those above 64lb for those who want it ---

I think the weights would soon be brought down if that were the case---

If left as it is it looks like a self destruct mode with all the bitterness being shown on here ---

kept out of subject till now but dont like people being upset or hurt--no need for it.

we are all gods children ===with our own opinions please respect other people's and allow them to express them without getting personal/or taking what they might say personally---

LIVE and LET LIVE---

MY sugestions/views/or whatever you would like to call them---

dont want any one to agree/disagree as it wont change my way of thinking --

thanks

steve

 

[Paws123]

Don't forget its a proposal year ...some good ideas on here :thumbsup: so don't forget to get them in ...i am sure this subject will be well discussed at the forthcoming agm

 

[marielou]

(QUOTE)The people who,s been accused for misleading us with breeding know exactly what they were doing with regards to racing greyhounds and breeding them as none ped racers .. i also only know of a handful of these types of dogs ... so i would say if there dogs for what ever reason can not race with any none ped organization ..then its soloy upto them breeders to re home them...i am positive the people in question have re homed greyhounds before

I do understand that some of these dogs weigh less than some 1st breed greyhound x whippet and these people will also have to loss out on racing , but don't they any way , cause i hear the majority of them saying they don't race straight just bends because the whippet traps are to small on the straights for there dogs ... i know there is a small hand full that only race the bend season for what ever there reasons ...but to me buying , breeding , schooling and racing a none ped whippet would mean , been able to race both bends and straights all year round if i wanted to ...if i only wanted to bend race i would buy a greyhound and race it at greyhound meetings ....but you always get some people that will take it that little bit further and try to con others

I am not aiming this post at anyone one person ... but to me whippets are whippet and over the years as the greyhound was introduced to the none ped breeding allowance have been made ...even up to last year the extra class 48lb was introduced for safety reasons , but where do we stop , at what point to we change the name of None ped racing to anything goes

Once we allow the doors to been opened a little bit for the small majority that has lied about there breeding for what ever reason ... there will be no stopping it and our whole heritage of none ped database is gone

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Dee, you're talking as if you know there are people passing off greyhounds as non peds and with respect if you know that much then you must know which dogs you're talking about, so why have the governing bodies not been more pro active about it? Not getting at you Dee but we must be talking about something significant for you to do such a radical 180 in your views, you and Gary have always said you didnt want to put any limits on the dogs in the interest of welfare and progression. If you have changed your views so radically especially when you have just arranged to give a home to a "biggun" (good luck with him by the way)

then there must really be something to worry about.

 

[JOHNG]

if they are know to the officials of our governing bodies then they should be stopped from racing. :- "

 

[dazgail]

I was of the opinion that most scratch racers aren't overly concerned about the size, height, weight of the scratch dogs. The ill feeling that has recently been brooding in k9 is due to accusations on a public forum of individuals breeding full greyhounds and racing them as either non peds or lurchers. I totally believe that anyone found doing this ought to be disciplined within their sport. Within the non ped scene there are clubs/regions/meetings/agms etc were this ought to be addressed and maybe rules or regulations put in place....that's up to the members to resolve within the proper protocol. Most non peders seem to be of the opinion that they don't want to go down this route due to the costs incurred etc etc. Lets all hope it can be done in an orderly,decent and proper fashion.

As for lurchers, there is no governing body with the same organisation/professionalism as you non peders have. It comes down to trust and ethics. Accusations will arise from time to time, i think, born out of suspicion and maybe jealousy. In any of the sports if people have knowingly raced greyhounds as non peds or lurchers they ought to be ashamed of themselves.....as you've won absolutely nothing.

Let's close rank and fight nail and tooth for our hobbies and pastime and not tear it and each other apart.

Darren

 

[weathergirls]

I was of the opinion that most scratch racers aren't overly concerned about the size, height, weight of the scratch dogs. The ill feeling that has recently been brooding in k9 is due to accusations on a public forum of individuals breeding full greyhounds and racing them as either non peds or lurchers. I totally believe that anyone found doing this ought to be disciplined within their sport. Within the non ped scene there are clubs/regions/meetings/agms etc were this ought to be addressed and maybe rules or regulations put in place....that's up to the members to resolve within the proper protocol. Most non peders seem to be of the opinion that they don't want to go down this route due to the costs incurred etc etc. Lets all hope it can be done in an orderly,decent and proper fashion.As for lurchers, there is no governing body with the same organisation/professionalism as you non peders have. It comes down to trust and ethics. Accusations will arise from time to time, i think, born out of suspicion and maybe jealousy. In any of the sports if people have knowingly raced greyhounds as non peds or lurchers they ought to be ashamed of themselves.....as you've won absolutely nothing.

Let's close rank and fight nail and tooth for our hobbies and pastime and not tear it and each other apart.

Darren

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there have been sucspisions over the years but no proof people will often make these accusations wether they are born out of jealousy or real concern is anyones guess as they are never backed up

I believe the NNWRF will act on it if anyone raises the issue with us and can verify what they are saying as well as back it up other than that our hands are pretty much tied at the moment with regard to members registering their pups breeding but the whole situation is being monitered and is on the agenda for our next committee meeting in October, so heres the chance for those who have something to say put it in writing to the NNWRF secretary or myself including your name and address and we will look into it