HELP! MY COLLIE IS ON HIS LAST CHANCE

[dindles]

Hi everyone, I'm Natalie and I have a nearly 3 year old border collie. He's male and neutered, father was a working dog.

We've had several incidences with him regarding teeth on skin, near misses. 8 in total.

I sought advice from a BC breeder who worked with us, she saw the damage from the incidents and said it was a near miss and one more would need him to be put to sleep.

He has great exercise, freedom to run every day, mental stimulation and a good diet.
Some of it seems to be resource guarding based, he's just so unpredictable. Started growling at us when we stroke him to say goodnight. Ive never had a dog before, please don't judge me im doing everything I can for him but I need some help.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you x

 

[JudyN]

I'm meant to be resting my wrists so excuse me being brief, but I had to respond - we were in a similar position with our dog in his younger days, and I can assure you that there IS hope.

Management will be a big part of dealing with this - remove all opportunity to guard, don't stroke him at bedtime. In fact don't stroke him at all unless he asks to be petted, and then pet him for a few seconds & stop - continue if he wants more.

Could you detail, as far as possible, the events leading up to the bites? You say he's unpredictable, but we might spot patterns, so you're better able to predict when there might be a risk.

Have a read of the links in this post for resource guarding & body language. Also probably accustoming a dog to a muzzle - it may be essential to muzzle him outside the house as the environment can be unpredictable and you really don't want him harming another person. My dog is always muzzled on walks as on rare occasions he'll decide someone else is scary and can react, but is absolutely happy & accepting of this.

 

[JoanneF]

I think Judy meant to link this post -

Useful Links & Recommended Reading

 

[JudyN]

I think Judy meant to link this post -

Useful Links & Recommended Reading

Oops, sorry... thanks JoanneF

 

[JudyN]

I should also add... You should seek a vet check, to ensure your dog isn't in any discomfort. And you may also benefit from a good behaviourist who can see your interactions with the dog. Steer clear of anyone who talks about status, dominance, etc., and advises 'corrections'.

 

[Tinytom]

Some dogs give subtle signs before a bite that you may not have picked up on ...we have a 6 yr old jack russell from working stock who has similar issues and we have had him from a 12 week old pup. ...
As judy says dont stroke or pet him unless he comes up to you ....do not give him anything of high value to guard ...what are you feeding him ...it has taken my boy over 5 years to stop growling etc although he never actually managed to bite us ....
Good on you for asking for help and not giving up on your boy ....
Muzzle training is also a fab way to ensure everyones safety outside. ...

 

[excuseme]

I have heard and read of dogs who's temperaments improve after changing to a natural raw diet. I have attached a link that may or may not help.

Raw Feeding and Behaviour — Balance Behaviour

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[JacksDad]

We've had several incidences with him regarding teeth on skin, near misses. 8 in total.

I sought advice from a BC breeder who worked with us, she saw the damage from the incidents and said it was a near miss and one more would need him to be put to sleep.

While it is possible that from time to time we just happen to move at the right time and the dog will miss in their strike at us, this will be rare. The vast majority of the time a dog strikes out at us, but does not make contact with us, they didn't mean to. Dogs have vastly better reflexes than us. On average, a human needs something like 1/4 of a second to even register a threat that needs a reaction, and that doesn't include the time it takes to actually react.

When a dog is snapping at us, putting teeth on us, and even biting, how that plays out tells us some information about the dog. If the dog is only snapping, they aren't biting, they are giving warnings. If they are placing teeth on us, but not puncturing our skin, they have escalated, but still trying not to harm. think of it as shouting at us. Even when they puncture our skin some analysis of the wound can give us clues to how dangerous the dog may or may not be. Sometimes the wounds are more self inflicted by us due to jerking back the body part the dog went for, than a wound created by a dog chomping down on us.

none of that reduces the seriousness of the situation. But it is information that helps a qualified professional make an assessment regarding the chances of overcoming the issues, or if other options need to be explored.

He has great exercise, freedom to run every day, mental stimulation and a good diet.

These issues are rarely due to lack of exercise, or even training in the sense of how well the dog responds to sit, or over come leash pulling, or how snappy the dog comes back when called. That kind of training often called "obedience training", has very little to do with, if anything a dog that is possibly resource guarding or has other aggression issues.

Do not automatically assume you have been been deficient in some way as a dog owner, genetics plays a role in this.

Some of it seems to be resource guarding based, he's just so unpredictable.

Resource guarding can cover a lot of different situations. when your dog has a toy, or specific toy how does he respond to hands reaching towards him, people walking past? What about when eating, someone walks past, how does he react?

Unfortunately just saying that a dog could be resource guarding doesn't tell us what we need to know in order to provide advice. We need almost like a radio sports caster calling out the play..human walking towards dog, dog has toy, human looks like about to stoop down, dog gets physically still and stiff, head turn slightly to one side, lips curls, low quiet growl is heard etc, etc. along with how you have been addressing the situation.

When you learn to understand the problem by breaking it down as described above, things become less "unpredictable". We ALL started out at the similar points of not knowing what we were seeing and thus the dog's behavior seemed unpredictable. This will change with sound guidance for understanding what is going on.

Started growling at us when we stroke him to say goodnight.

We get dogs to enjoy the companionship. To have snuggles on the couch with. To pet and show and receive affection. I can be hard when your dog that you love and care for doesn't like the affection. I have worked with several dogs that started out this way. But this too can often be overcome.

Now, we can't make a dog like something they just don't naturally like. But we can meet them half way, and help them learn to be more relaxed and tolerant of our affection. To some this my seem selfish that we would try and make a dog endure something they do not like. But the simple fact is this. People do expect dogs to handle being touched AND there will be husbandry chores such as brushing, bathing, teeth/ear cleaning, nail clipping vet visits etc. So we actually owe it to our dogs to try and helping them better handle being touched. The meeting them half way is we put rules so to speak around it so that we do not overwhelm and make life horrible for our dogs.

The start here is if you know doing X makes him growl, then you stop doing X. I worked with a client dog that was a highly affectionate dog, except while sleeping. She would growl/bit when touched while sleeping. simple answer, don't touch while sleeping. A year ago started working with a puppy that came with an aversion to being touched. A year later he has stopped biting his people, and better is handling being touched. Given his breed, life long touching to handle groom tasks made this none optional to overcome.

Overcoming the touch issue might require zero touching to start, changing what just hands moving towards him predicts, and building from there.

Big post without a lot of specific bits of advice. But that is because we do need more specifics.

I want to echo Judy's advice about health issues. One of the most over looked causes of aggression is unknown and thus untreated pain. But just feeling crappy due to some health issue can also be a cause.

Don't just start trying stuff to see what works, lets try and discuss some specifics and illustrate how you might approach the specific issue.

If you do seek professional help, Judy is 100% correct about her advice for what to avoid. You do not have an "obedience" or "respect" problem, and the things she is advising you avoid, tend to look at everything through those narrow lens.