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Experience Of Pointy Dog Amputees

Phoenyx

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Following on from Rae's thread about Leia, and mine in the lurcher section, I thought I'd post separately about the experiences I've had with our two amputees.

Jonathan and Storm are both lurchers (Jonny is mainly greyhound and Storm is a known greyhound/staffie cross). These are their stories:

Jonathan

Jonny came to us after being found by the Dog Warden, he had been dumped with a very badly broken (compound) leg that had been simply taped up and not treated. By the time he was found, the leg was past the point of being saved due to infection in the bone and was amputated. [The Dog Warden service paid for this as we, (as Phoenyx) offered to give the little fella a permanent home. It was touch and go whether he would survive the op and he was in the vets for a month after surgery before he was well enough to come home.

Jonny when he was found:

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Jonny, a week after the op:

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and 3 weeks later:

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still very swollen :(

It took Jonny a very long time to recover, due in part to the extent of the damage and partly because he doesn't heal very well. Jonny is a bit of an oddity, he bruises very easily and a month after the op he still looked like he'd been kicked all over, it took over 6 months for full recovery :(

As Jonny had only lower leg damage, the vet decided to remove just the damaged part - I wish my vet had been allowed to do the op as we would have taken the full shoulder out, but it wasn't our decision to make at the time.

Amputation leaving part of the leg intact is a simpler op for the vet but it does mean that bone is cut and the loose muscle wrapped over the wound as a 'cushion' - cut bone takes longer to heal than just muscle alone and therefore causes the dog more discomfort at the time. They do seem to act as though the leg is still there for a while, Jonny used to try to give a paw and when he couldn't he used his remaining leg and, obviously, fell over when he did. He now waggles his stump instead :(

Jonny did have some muscle retraction at the stump and the end of the bone did start to regrow slightly, causing a swelling and sores. We feared that he may have to be operated again to remove the last of the leg but thankfully it did settle down with time. Jonny does rest on the stump when he lies down and this can make it sore sometimes. Plenty of soft bedding helps.

Storm

Storm came to Phoenyx having been saved from being shot by his original owner. He had been out training (for lamping) and had run into a boulder, causing nerve damage at the shoulder. His owner didn't treat his dogs, if they didn't heal in a week after being injured they were simply shot. Someone had seen the accident happen and called round to see how the dog was, when they realised that Storm was not being treated they offered to take him instead - they got him immediate treatment and he eventually came to us as the leg was not being used.

Storm when he came to us:

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Unfortunately, by the time he was given treatment, Storm already had radial nerve damage and severe muscle wastage at the shoulder. We did try a combination of hydrotherapy (to build muscle) and accupuncture (to rebuild nerve use) and it was working! Sadly though, even with physio, the bones in his wrist started to seize and we had no option then but to amputate.

My vet performed the operation and I sat in on it - not something I'd recommend if anyone's even slightly squeamish :x - I do have photos if anyone's really curious..... :blink:

We decided to remove the whole leg and shoulder (full scapula removal) and although it is a very drastic and quite gruesome operation it does have a much faster recovery time and when we compare both dogs, it certainly seemed to be the better option all round. Cut muscle heals faster than cut bone.

Storm - 2 weeks after the op:

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Within 24 hours Storm was up and about and stomping around the garden!!

Storm now:

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Both dogs were given hydrotherapy as part of their recovery (once the actual wound was healed) and I'd recommend it every time, it made a huge difference - especially to Jonny.

Jonny and Storm both get around very well, Jonny is a bit more ungainly when he walks but at speed they are both extremely agile and very fast! Both run, jump, dig holes (!!) and they both adapted very well (probably made easier by the fact that they were both used to getting round on 3 legs prior to the op and just had to adjust their balance afterwards).

Rear leg amputees (pointy ones anyway) seem to have better overall mobility than front leg amputatees but our two are fine. We have to be careful, with Jonny especially, that they don't exercise too hard and put too much strain on the remaining leg and shoulder but otherwise thay are treated the same as the others.

Jonny - showing typical 'tripod' stance :wub:

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Sorry this is long, but I hope it helps :b

Jules

:wub:
 
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Wow, really interesting, Jules. Thanks for posting this:thumbsup: They're both such lovely-looking dogs :wub: Amazing that they can still get around fast, and dig holes (w00t) :lol:
 
~Helen~ said:
Amazing that they can still get around fast, and dig holes (w00t)   :lol:
Storm does, no problem at all, Jonny tries to copy but keeps falling over :b :lol:

Forgot to mention here, Jonathan can still jump over a 5-bar gate.... he decided it was the quickest way to get back to me instead of running along the hedge and through the gap :huh:
 
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Thanks so much Jules, I was going to refer Rae to your rescue page blurb about the boys. They are marvelous creatures. I think animals just adapt to their circumstances whatever they may be. Luckily, they don't have the power or capacity to question "if only", or "what could have been". Today is all that matters :thumbsup:
 
That was fascinating to read Pheonyx - thank you. It was really interesting - you were very brave to go into the operation - I take my hat off to you.

Those eyes :blink: on Storm - 2 weeks after the op.... I just had to go Awwwww

and johny - but just look at them now wow. Great recoveries. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks, to be honest I was very suprised how well and how fast Storm recovered, he was amazing :wub:

I do think that Jonny staying in the vets for so long didn't help his recovery at all, he would have been so much better coming straight home to be honest - but he was only released to our care once the vet agreed, I did have a bit of a strop eventually and they let him come home sooner than they really wanted to, he came on in leaps and bounds (literally!!) once he was here.

Storm came home the day of the op (our vet doesn't have anyone on site 24hrs normally and I'm able to set up emergency care here if needed). I was up all night as he had to be turned every hour to help stop swelling - I must say it wasn't the best night for either of us but he was on pain meds and still groggy from the op. The next day he was just amazing, sore obviously but able to get up and about almost straight away - lots of cuddles, lots of very gentle massage to disperse fluid build up and dressing changes every 2 days. He was still a bit tender on the area up to about 3 months post op but the change in his overall demeanour was amazing, I think it was a great relief to him to be rid of the almost useless leg at last.

One thing I almost forgot about, Jonny and Storm have opposite front legs missing and they used to lean together after a run around the garden with 'missing' sides against each other! :lol: :wub: It may be complete coincidence but the pair of them are great pals, I'd like to think that they support each other's disability. :wub:
 
Phoenyx said:
Thanks, to be honest I was very suprised how well and how fast Storm recovered, he was amazing  :wub: I do think that Jonny staying in the vets for so long didn't help his recovery at all, he would have been so much better coming straight home to be honest - but he was only released to our care once the vet agreed, I did have a bit of a strop eventually and they let him come home sooner than they really wanted to, he came on in leaps and bounds (literally!!) once he was here.

Storm came home the day of the op (our vet doesn't have anyone on site 24hrs normally and I'm able to set up emergency care here if needed). I was up all night as he had to be turned every hour to help stop swelling - I must say it wasn't the best night for either of us but he was on pain meds and still groggy from the op. The next day he was just amazing, sore obviously but able to get up and about almost straight away - lots of cuddles, lots of very gentle massage to disperse fluid build up and dressing changes every 2 days. He was still a bit tender on the area up to about 3 months post op but the change in his overall demeanour was amazing, I think it was a great relief to him to be rid of the almost useless leg at last.

One thing I almost forgot about, Jonny and Storm have opposite front legs missing and they used to lean together after a run around the garden with 'missing' sides against each other!  :lol:   :wub:   It may be complete coincidence but the pair of them are great pals, I'd like to think that they support each other's disability.  :wub:



How extrodinary that they are mutual leaning posts.......Completely wonderful :wub:
 
thats a wonderful story.got me choked when i read about their beginnings and how they hadnt been treated. :( why do some folk keep dogs?makes me angry. :rant: i recently had problems with a tooth abscess and the pain was terrible,how poor johnny put up with the pain he had i dont know.good for you for getting them better and not giving up on them when other folk would have just put them to sleep. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks so much for posting this Jules- -fascinating.

I'm going to make my OH read it.

When Leia first had complications we both agreed that we couldn't remove her leg as she is (well was) so active and crazy, and that we would have her PTS if it came to it. Now that it's looking seriously like an option I would do anything to save her- but I need to be 100% sure that I'm doing it for her too, and not just me, and Star ofcourse. :huggles:

I'm so sorry that your boys have been through what they did - but thank goodness for you - a total angel. Poor Johnathon especially - he must have been in AGONY :(

Thanks for the tips - ie cut through muscle not bone. I feel much better prepared now.

Jules do you mind answering some more questions please :b - how much exercise can they manage each day? How much of it free running? How long before Storm was free running?

Kisses to Johnny and Storm from us. :wub:
 
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Really interesting to hear more about the rehab side of things - I think we maybe could follow up our amputees more. It often seems that they are all doing amazingly well because the owner is always so amazed that they can cope!

It's true that hindlimb amputees tend to find it easier to get about at ridiculous speeds, but I know a couple of working collies missing front legs and still more than able to shift hundreds of sheep from A to B in a matter of minutes.

I have had a couple of clients who have just said 'He/she will be put to sleep before we amputate', and have taken some persuading and lots of discussion before surgery took place. These people have always been delighted with their amputated outcomes, I've never known anyone regret the procedure.

I did once have to put a dog to sleep, and the vein wasn't very good so I just said 'We'll have a shot with the other leg'. Thankfully the owners found the fact that I hadn't noticed that the dog was an amputee completely hysterical! (w00t)
 
Rae said:
Jules do you mind answering some more questions please  :b - how much exercise can they manage each day?  How much of it free running?  How long before Storm was free running?
Kisses to Johnny and Storm from us.  :wub:

No probs :))

Exercise was limited to 'out for wees' etc for a couple of weeks (garden only) until the wound was healing well (we waited until the dressing was off) and until the stitches were out before going out as normal.

Storm can't go out like a normal dog, he is still terrified of being put on lead/harness and going out for walks, he's fine in the garden and does his version of a grand prix race course with Jonny and Dylan but it's taken over a year so far for him not to pee himself with fear when a harness or lead goes on him. He was a VERY badly abused lad and I don't think he'll ever be able to do 'normal' off lead stuff :( He was able to run around after around 3 weeks safely (he would have done it earlier if we'd let him).

Jonathan was wanting to run around as soon as he came home (about a month post op) but due to his bruising problems and very slow healing he had to be restricted.

Both lads went for hydrotherapy as soon as the stitches were out (the wound has to be fully healed on the outside before they are allowed in the pool).

Personally, I'd wait until the wound is fully healed before going back to normal exercise and then only short running for the first couple of weeks. Amputation is a huge shock to the system and even if they look healed outside, the muscle internally can still be healing a few months post op. Jonanthan did worry me at first as he seemed to want to do too much but now he knows when he's done enough without straining himself.

Neither can exercise as much as they used to, short walk with a sprint is enough for Jonathan (and would be for Storm too), just not worth risking too much strain on the remaining front leg.

I'd definitely use hydro again though :wub:

I won't kid you, it is a brutal operation but with proper pain meds and post op care they recover very quickly and a couple of months down the line everything is taken for granted and back to pretty much normal. :))
 
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Phoenyx said:
Rae said:
Jules do you mind answering some more questions please  :b - how much exercise can they manage each day?  How much of it free running?  How long before Storm was free running?
Kisses to Johnny and Storm from us.  :wub:

No probs :))

Neither can exercise as much as they used to, short walk with a sprint is enough for Jonathan (and would be for Storm too), just not worth risking too much strain on the remaining front leg.

I'd definitely use hydro again though :wub:

I won't kid you, it is a brutal operation but with proper pain meds and post op care they recover very quickly and a couple of months down the line everything is taken for granted and back to pretty much normal. :))

That is what worries me :( She's used to 2-3 hours a day before the accident. It would mean leaving her behind for 2 walks a day - and she couldnt come on holiday with us - unless we didn't walk far. I know what you are saying that they will adapt and cope etc - but it wont be the 'same'. It's heart breaking isnt it? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Thanks Jules - it's so helpful to get a truer picture of what it might be like. :cheers:
 
AS ILKC says

"I have had a couple of clients who have just said 'He/she will be put to sleep before we amputate', and have taken some persuading and lots of discussion before surgery took place. These people have always been delighted with their amputated outcomes, I've never known anyone regret the procedure."
 
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Rae said:
That is what worries me  :(   She's used to 2-3 hours a day before the accident. It would mean leaving her behind for 2 walks a day - and she couldnt come on holiday with us  - unless we didn't walk far. I know what you are saying that they will adapt and cope etc - but it wont be the 'same'.  It's heart breaking isnt it?  :'(   :'(   :'(   :'(   :'(
Thanks Jules - it's so helpful to get a truer picture of what it might be like.  :cheers:

Ah, but our two aren't the best examples as far as exercise levels go, Storm will keep bombing round the garden all day if you let him and if he will eventually let his demons go he'll be able to do a 'normal' walk. Jonathan seems to know when he's had enough - it's amazing how well they adapt - and he doesn't seem to mind not going on long walks. He would be out on longer walks but he has joint problems not related to the amputation so simply can't do too much, doesn't spoil his fun when he is out though :wub:

I know what you mean about it not being the 'same' but this would also apply in old age though, a couple of our old greyhounds can't walk very far even though they still want to but they still seem happy with what they can do. An amputee, like an oldie, can still live a very full and happy life :wub:
 
I think you two (Rae and Jules) need to swap phone numbers and talk :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
On a lighter note, Jonathan can also contort into much smaller sleeping positions now.....

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This is actually how he sleeps! (w00t) :wub:

edit to add: this was shortly before he had his 'bits' removed :b
 
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Joanna said:
I think you two (Rae and Jules) need to swap phone numbers and talk :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:
or maybe meet in the chatroom? I haven't tried it myself, but it must be easier than waiting for questions and answers?

good luck anyway :luck:
 
Right - I've slept on it -_-

We are definately going to give it a go if it comes to it - and we'll cope and adjust to whatever Leia can manage. She's a really out going dog and I do think she would just get on with it and still enjoy her life. :D

Just wait and see what Tuesday brings now. :luck:

Just a bit worrying that she may not have a 'spare' anymore. (w00t)
 
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Rae said:
Right - I've slept on it  -_-
We are definately going to  give it a go if it comes to it - and we'll cope and adjust to whatever Leia can manage.  She's a really out going dog and I do think she would just get on with it and still enjoy her life.  :D

Just wait and see what Tuesday brings now.  :luck:

Just a bit worrying that she may not have a 'spare' anymore.  (w00t)


Wishing you all the luck in the world, whatever Tuesday brings :luck: :luck: :luck: :luck: :luck: :luck:
 
Rae said:
Right - I've slept on it  -_-
We are definately going to  give it a go if it comes to it - and we'll cope and adjust to whatever Leia can manage.  She's a really out going dog and I do think she would just get on with it and still enjoy her life.  :D

Just wait and see what Tuesday brings now.  :luck:

Just a bit worrying that she may not have a 'spare' anymore.  (w00t)


Good for you Rae, it might not even come to that :) Hey, about the spare, if she did loose the leg and was daft enough to damge another beyond repair, I'll get Lloyd to knock you up some wheels on a Leia frame :thumbsup: :teehee: :D
 
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