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Denhills Democrat

aslan

aslan

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Karen I think I remember you saying something to me in one of your posts that you were a fan of Denhills Democrat "before he left the country". Is that right? Have I got the right dog? IF so, when did he leave England and where did he go? Did he breed on?

Can anyone give me any info on this dog? Just a mild matter of interest.
 
Hi Lana, Demi did'nt leave it was his brother D Delegate who went to SA I think? Demi lived out his days with his mum Janet Edwards (Velgra)
 
Yes - Deligate came to Aust, to Queesland not south Australia - he's in my dog's pedigrees very heavily. But he is not Democrat's brother. Deligate's mother (Denhills Debonair) is Democrat's sister.

So was Democrat used at stud much? by whom?
 
He was not used much, I know he sired a couple of litters and I dare say I will remember sometime soon who they were :b

He was a lovely soft little dog, very sound, I was going to use him myself at one time because I loved the Gainscliffe dog also. Its funny how things change, Im not sure he would do so very well in the ring now.

I will try to find out some info for you but as I got the last bit wrong dont hold your breath. Im one of those people who only look forward, when a days gone its gone so I have to dredge extra hard to recall :(
 
We've only seen pics of D Deligate, but liked him very much. Have just mated one of his sons to one of his grandaughters.

Karen, you said that you didn't know if D. Democrat would do very well today, compared to the past. What changes have occurred over time? Whats better? and whats not?

I'd be interested in people's thoughts
 
When he was showing Democrat was a tiny bit finer and softer than most at that time. I feel the dogs are more robust and longer now in loin, also the word stallion crops up in write ups. (which makes frodo strut around a bit before collapsing in a soft heap) :D

Another similar dog you pictured was Capo di Monti, they were elegant as well as fuctional but I think even at that time things were changing slowly as they always will.
 
IMO Gajo I think Democrat SHOULD do well today. Whether he would or not is another matter. But I think he was very much like his father, CH Gainscliffe Renown, and Great Grandfather (dam's side), Ch Deepridge Mintmaster - who were all, I feel, of similar type to Trex (D. Deligate).

I like it ! :D
 
:) Isn't it strange how things change before your very eyes. I only tend to see it when I look back at old photo's and then I see how the dogs have changed. While you are showing you realy don't notice the sutle changes. (As I said it's when you look back .) I have to agree very few of the dogs from 15 to 20 years ago would win today and vice versa. Also new words in our vocabulary ie the word stallion like, I don't usually use the word because I prefer to use the words substance with elegance. When you see how our top lines are changing (for the better) instead of that roach top line we are seeing more of the correct arch over the loin. I have always said you carn't have a loin till you reach the last rib and then the rise over the loin going with the flow of the dog. Just my opion. Jill
 
Stallion-like ? I don't use that either - I don't think a whippet should be stallion-like. The phrase conjures up images of BIG whippets for me. Graceful with power ...yes ... I can see that too but can't get past the big image.

So Jill do you have a theory on whether Democrat in particular would/should win today?
 
A look back through the eng champions volumes certainly shows how whippets have changed over the decades. In many ways for the better, including better heads and in some cases better top lines. Not sure though that we haven't gained a bit too much substance, and occassionally courseness with our dogs particularly. The bitches in aust seem to go up over the dogs week in and week out under all breeder judges.

Breed specialists seem to put up the dogs- including the big ones. Why do the breed specialists and all breeders do it so different? Is the specialist more knowledgeable about the breed, or more blinded to the less favourable characteristics evolving over time?

Or are the all breeders in a time warp and still have the dogs of yesteryear locked into their visions of their "ideal" whippets?
 
Sorry I can't comment on Democrat as I have no Idea what he looked like. ??? Jill
 
I would describe a dog that had real 'look at me' presence as being stallion-like (and have done so in critiques). Stallions come in all breed from Falabellas to Shire Horses!!! Size has nothing to do with it it is the way it behaves that is the deciding factor.
 
aslan said:
IMO Gajo I think Democrat SHOULD do well today.  Whether he would or not is another matter.  But I think he was very much like his father, CH Gainscliffe Renown, and Great Grandfather (dam's side), Ch Deepridge Mintmaster - who were all, I feel, of similar type to Trex (D. Deligate).
I like it !  :D
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I well remember Denhills Democrat, he was smaller and more compact than his sire, very sound but for real top honors there was not really enough of him, even in those days. Capo Di Monti was a bigger dog but full of quality I gave him a C.C. at Border Counties Hound and his litter sister Queen of the May at Marash the Bitch C.C. they both got made up and I think Queen of the May went abroad. Mintmaster was one of my favourite dogs he was not small though but I still rate him as one of the all time greats, and yes maybe a stallion hound, to me a stallion hound like Dessie says has a presence and a look as if they could produce, Tantivvey Diver was one of these and so was Ch. Dondelayo Buckaroo

Patsy
 
I bump into the breeder of this dog very occasionally. He lives a few miles down the road from me, and I've seen him at one or two of our local dog shows. He also drinks at our local social club. I remember last time I saw him (must be 8 months ago now) he was telling me how he finally agreed to let this dog go to Australia. He was a bit reluctant at first, but the lady who wanted him was quite persistent, so he finally agreed. He was pleased in the end because it did very well in the show ring by all accounts.

Just a useless bit of information, but I couldn't help myself.
 
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Point taken Dessie!

Thanks for the insight Patsy - obviously I only have a photo of Democrat to go on, you have personal experience. However I still like what I see in the pic very much. When you say he was small - does anyone know what height he actually was? It would be interesting to know. And Mintmaster - not small - does anyone know for sure what height? It is intriguing to me.

And Jill - here's the pic for you - from the Champions book.
 
OH Hi Nicola we are posting at the same time!

Yes I have met Dennis Hill and he told me the same story. I know the lady who bought Deligate very well - she is my foundation stock's breeder - and I knew Trex (Deligate) well - hugged and kissed him many times :p

I also told Dennis how glad I was that he let Deligate go - otherwise I would never have had my beautiful, beloved Bobby.
 
Demi must have been 20ins but as Patsy says not enough of him to impress lots of judges, as I said before he was soft and very very slightly femine for a dog.
 
Karen said:
Demi must have been 20ins but as Patsy says not enough of him to impress lots of judges, as I said before he was soft and very very slightly femine for a dog.
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I would have put Democrat at at 19inchs, my 2 boys Chs Cavalier and Astinought were both 20 inchs and Democrat was smaller than them, and Mintmaster just a bit bigger.

Patsy
 
That is very interesting for me to know Patsy. Thank you. Studying old photos (as pleasurable a task as I find it ) always leaves me thinking "I wonder how tall that dog was" - one can NEVER gauge from a pic.

I can't find the specific pic I was looking for - but this one below will do. This is my old Bobby dog (Ch Grau Aceo Diamonds - died 4 years ago now) only 10 mths old in this pic. I can see similarities between Democrat and Bob. (Bob was 20 inches)
 
:) Thank you Lana for the photo. Sorry not my style of whippet these days. I am sure he did well in his own era. :D Jill
 
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