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- Thread starter Glen Loth
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For those who missed it, the respondent suggested show whippets would have the same prey drive and hunting instincts as whips selectively bred for these qualities over generations. This would point to a complete waste of time by renowned breeders such as Mrs McKay who obviously(in his/her opinion) wasted their lives in such devotion,
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I did miss the thread but own a show whippet and a racing whippet, both have a very strong prey drive, the only difference is the racing whippet is leaner, faster and more agile than the show bred. He tends to catchmore live prey, but I would agree whole-heartedly with June that prey drive is an instinct. As with all traits, if you nurture and develop a certain aspect to suit you requirements, that instinct will develop and skills improve.
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"I would agree whole-heartedly with June that prey drive is an instinct."
Yes, and that instinct is heightened by selected breeding, and lost in degrees with generations of non selective breeding.
"that instinct will develop and skills improve."
only if that instinct has not been lost by generations of non selective breeding, basic genetics
To suggest that unproven show dogs carry the same characteristics as selectively bred working dogs is farsical, regardless of breed, and more so with whippets,
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Yes, and that instinct is heightened by selected breeding, and lost in degrees with generations of non selective breeding.
"that instinct will develop and skills improve."
only if that instinct has not been lost by generations of non selective breeding, basic genetics
To suggest that unproven show dogs carry the same characteristics as selectively bred working dogs is farsical, regardless of breed, and more so with whippets,
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. To insist that a pure show bred whip is likely to carry the same degree of prey drive and hunting instict of a whip from a blood that has focused on those traits for generations is not reasonable, or logical, or indeed supportable,
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Jill midlanderkeiths bitch is show bred isn't she? Shes always got a rabbit in her chops or around her person :- "
If you could explain how a show bred dog could have the same working instincts as a dog selectively bred for those working instincts over many generations I will be well pleased. I would also like to know how working instincts remain at a working level in unproven stock not selectively bred, apart from rare individuals,
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I've had a think about this and is it not that working bred dogs work because that is where they are directed from an early age and most show bred ones dont, not that they cant just that their owners have not followed that path?
i have 4 whippets one dog who was breed to hunt and a bitch that was breed for showing ,now while out the other day we had chance to slip both to a rabbit or two and well i was shocked as my showing bitch did so much better at trying to catch and stalk her prey than my hunting breed dog he was just as keen but just didnt have the speed or ablititly to twist and turn like my bitch did so i think that itn depends on the dog 
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Glen Loth said:
I personally think the majority of Whippets regardless of "type" have a good prey drive, BUT I do think that for a working type they will breed in a higher prey drive as you're not going to use a stud dog that isn't interested in live etc ...., just as a racer wouldn't use a stud that doesn't race ......Show dogs are very capable of working, but often lack the speed and agility of a fit worker ......In all types you have to breed the right mentality into them .....I know my line of racers (they are half coursing/racing bred) prefer live and often find if a race is too much like hard work they jack it as its only a bit of plastic .....Yet my old show bred would run after anything and my old boy Jacob who is half show bred and half racing bred finished 2/3 rds of a lure coursing course (and I still had to prize the treasured white plastic bag from between his teeth) with a fractured hock .....now really most dogs would have stopped as soon as their hock had gone, but not the Twit .... :wacko: ......So really a lots breeding, but I do think its just as important to breed the right heads JMO
This could be an interesting topic but is in danger of turning into a bit of a scrap so I've removed all the bits from posts that are more about each other than the actual topic. In some cases there isn't much left so I apologise for that if it doesn't now make sense but I hope you agree that its better than closing the topic. :thumbsup:
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Wonder if there's anything in here about particular lines?
My Digit is a Collooney (as is Midlanderkeith's Jill) and his prey drive is phenomenal. His size makes the twisting and turning more difficult for him - but that is about how good he is at catching what he's chasing, not how keen he is to chase them ..... officially I would classify him as MUSTARD whether it's the lure or a bunny.
Bloggs is a working bred whippet and although he's not as bright as Dij he is also very keen. Bloggs is my hedging whippet - he will follow a rabbit at top speed into a hedge (w00t) - luckily he also seems to be indestructable.
My Digit is a Collooney (as is Midlanderkeith's Jill) and his prey drive is phenomenal. His size makes the twisting and turning more difficult for him - but that is about how good he is at catching what he's chasing, not how keen he is to chase them ..... officially I would classify him as MUSTARD whether it's the lure or a bunny.
Bloggs is a working bred whippet and although he's not as bright as Dij he is also very keen. Bloggs is my hedging whippet - he will follow a rabbit at top speed into a hedge (w00t) - luckily he also seems to be indestructable.
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It is a genetically inherited trait in a 'whippet' - but you seem to think it is missing completely from anything but a working bred whippet :wacko: . A whippet is a sighthound that is driven by the instinct to chase and kill - why you want to separate a particular line of whippets is beyond me.Glen Loth said:
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Yes it is, and as such It can be concentrated, or lost, by selective/non selective breeding. The original statement of conjecture contained the false declaration that show bred whips are likely to contain a similar instinctual prey drive as found in purposely bred working whippets. As agreed NOW that instinct is a genetically inherited trait, that previous statement shows it true value.June Jonigk said:
Renowned breeders such as Mrs McKay devoted their lives to breeding working whips on the basis of genetically inherited traits. To claim most show bred whips contain similar levels of these instincts, without selective breeding, is illogical and an insult to the marvelous work of those great breeders,
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Been a working bloke fer 50 years :lol: now i think i can speak with a bit of authority, ive a collooney bitch, they dunna come more show bred than that, now then when i first started working her, more prey drive in a tibetan yak, not at all what our beloved breed was meant to do, so i put my experience to good use on her, and to cut a long story short, this dog is now mustard and im proud to have instilled in her, with kindness and understanding, a dog to be proud of., in the pic, you will see prey drive.Glen Loth said:
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As long as Mrs McKay is happy with her breeding - then that's fine with me :thumbsup: I would only be insulting her if I insulted her breeding - which I haven't, nor would :cheers:Glen Loth said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is just that - your opinion - and as long as you're happy with it, that's also fine with me :thumbsup:
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Exactly :thumbsup:urchin said:
Indeed a dog to be proud of, a very nice looking dog and her condition is a credit to you.midlanderkeith said:
I never said you couldn,t get a worker from a show only kennel and am infact pleased you have been able to do so. All whippets carry some working blood if you go back far enough and it will pop up in show bred dogs. It will be far more common and concentrated, usually, in lines selectively bred for the working traits.
This is the basis of all breeding, be it dog, sheep, pigeon, etc Breed by selection of apparent traits to produce, consistantly, a desired result. Your chances increase and decrease with the selection process.
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Yes, luckily, we are all entitled to "opinions" and I,m glad of it.June Jonigk said:
Mine just happens to have a sound scientfic basis, I refer you to simple Darwinian genetics, and the laws of Mendel that are used as a basis for breeding everything, it appears but whippets??
Can you get black pups from two fawn parents??
Anybody intending to obtain a working whippet will have a much higher chance of success if they source said whip from a proven producing working line. These lines are maintained by breeding selection of the desired traits, not a lottery,
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