Breeding Sisters And Brothers Of Cryptorchids Dogs

[dandee]

Can anyone tell me if one can use as a breeding dog the brother or sister of a known cryptorchid ?? is this something that the siblings will also carry (even if they appear normal) and the offspring express? and is there anyway to find out?? Thanks , Dan dee

 

[lalena]

technically, yes you can. but imo i wouldnt really recommend it. do you know where it came from? i mean, was the dad/grandad affected? if you knew where it was inherited from, which line, that would help in that when choosing a mate, if you line breed, you breed to the unaffected side. but if its like most other inherited problems, needing both parents to be carriers for offspring to be affected, chances are that on average 25% will be affected, 25% clear and 50% will themselves be carriers meaning that if a chosen mate for the sibling is also a carrier, you will in all likeliness get an affected puppy in the litter

as cryptorchids are prone to testicular cancer etc, is that really a trait you want to pass on to future generations? in staffords, you arent allowed to use an affected dog for stud, not allowed to show etc. not sure how this is viewed in your breed :blink:

 

[Seraphina]

Every breed standard stipulates that dog has to have 2 apparently normal testicles fully descended into scrotum to be eligible for showing. And they certainly should not be used for breeding as ALL of his offspring would be carriers, even if not affected.

Inheritance of cryptorchidism is considered to be sex-limited autosomal recessive, if you intend to breed from siblings (both sexes) of affected dog it is safer to outcross. Of-course, you can never be sure the unrelated dog does not carry this gene, most people do not publises the fact they have pups with no balls.

As far as testicular cancer goes, cryptorchids only have a more chance of getting it later on in the life, so if the testicle is removed there is no problem.

 

[»Tina«]

My dog Binx has this problem so his brother and his sister should not be bred from really as they would have the gene too and will be carriers, which will be passed onto thier offspring.

if you go to the FAQ section you will find loads of info there :thumbsup:

 

[bardmand]

Would anyone care to venture an estimate of how large a proportion of the whippet population (including bitches) are either carriers or affected by the gene for cryptorchism?

Without such an estimate, I am not entirely sure it should be argued that all siblings of affected dogs should not be bred from. If there is reason to suspect a very large number of whippets could be carriers, it would severely limit the genepool if such measures were taken.

I am not sure this condition is so serious it would be worthwhile risking limiting the genepool, thereby increasing the risk for other, potentially more serious problems.

I am not saying cryptorchism should not be taken into consideration when breeding, only that it should not be the only consideration when planning a mating.

 

[»Tina«]

Would anyone care to venture an estimate of how large a proportion of the whippet population (including bitches) are either carriers or affected by the gene for cryptorchism?
Without such an estimate, I am not entirely sure it should be argued that all siblings of affected dogs should not be bred from. If there is reason to suspect a very large number of whippets could be carriers, it would severely limit the genepool if such measures were taken.

I am not sure this condition is so serious it would be worthwhile risking limiting the genepool, thereby increasing the risk for other, potentially more serious problems.

I am not saying cryptorchism should not be taken into consideration when breeding, only that it should not be the only consideration when planning a mating.

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I think it is serious enough not to breed from, as I have to put Binx through a big op in about year's time or let him die of cancer from it!! not nice either way.

 

[bardmand]

I am not sure this condition is so serious it would be worthwhile risking limiting the genepool, thereby increasing the risk for other, potentially more serious problems.
I am not saying cryptorchism should not be taken into consideration when breeding, only that it should not be the only consideration when planning a mating.

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I think it is serious enough not to breed from, as I have to put Binx through a big op in about year's time or let him die of cancer from it!! not nice either way.

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Please do not think I am insensitive to the problems this causes for cryptorchid dogs and their owners. All I am saying is that this is a problem which is treatable. Of course it would be preferable if you did not have to let your dog go through surgery, but it is a fairly simple procedure, and the outcome is good in almost all cases.

All I am saying is, that compared to many other genetic illnesses that can be found in dogs, I do not think cryptorchism is amongst those that cause the most suffering for the dogs themselves. From what I have learnt, there are various auto-immune disorders, PRA and von Willebrand's disease present in the whippet population, diseases that are much harder to treat than cryptorchism, and that I would hate to see become more widespread than they already are.

I do not know if you have the same discussions in Britain about breeding from dogs with hip dysplasia, but in many breeds in Norway, one has come to the realisation that programs for eradicating this particular disease has lead to an undesirable narrowing of the gene pool for certain breeds. I do not know if this could be the result of a strict eradication programme for cryptorchism in whippets, but no one has assured me of the opposite either.

 

[»Tina«]

ok I understand what your trying to say, but to be honest I'm not that 'up' on other whippet conditions,

as far as I'm aware whippets are the least prone dogs in the UK to have conditions that many other dogs have, infact I don't know of one other than crypto,

maybe someone else can help out here?

 

[Seraphina]

Please do not think I am insensitive to the problems this causes for cryptorchid dogs and their owners. All I am saying is that this is a problem which is treatable. Of course it would be preferable if you did not have to let your dog go through surgery, but it is a fairly simple procedure, and the outcome is good in almost all cases.

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Yes it can be a simple procedure, but it also can be rather messy one if the missing teste is hiding somewhere up near the kidney - or so i was told.

I can see your point about reducing the gene pool and I certainly agree, Iwould not like to see any draconian measures taken, however I think it is also extremely dangerous not to take into account when looking for a stud dog.

I heard on the local grapevine about litters (not necesarily Whippets) where there were several male pups and not a one testicle betwen them. And while all these pups are capable of perfectly happy life as someone's pets, I DO NOT AIM TO BREED PETS. I aim to breed good quality healthy show dogs from which I would like to breed the next generation of Whippets.

As the descent of testicles is triggered by hormones, to me lack of testes indicates some hormonal inballance. I also wonder if diet and all the chemicals are dogs exposed to could be a contributing factor.

 

[June Jonigk]

I think cryptochidism is very worrying in our breed - there seem to be so many more now, than there were 20 years ago.

Unfortunately, because it doesn't affect how fast a dog can run, there are cryptorchid dogs quite openly being used at stud in pedigree whippet racing, with complete disregard of how much the problem is spreading. Breeders are breeding for speed, and burying their heads in the sand where hereditary faults are concerned. One breeder said to me "why should I worry? - I want to keep a bitch"!!!!!

It's probably about time the Whippet Club stepped in to prevent it. If they stopped the offspring of cryptorchids from obtaining a passport to race - it would stop the problem overnight.

Just my views of course, and probably not the views of the majority, as it doesn't seem to stop people wanting the puppies.

 

[»Tina«]

totally agree with Seraphina and June on this one, these dogs should NOT be bred from, it will only benifit the breed in the long run :thumbsup:

 

[bardmand]

I think cryptochidism is very worrying in our breed - there seem to be so many more now, than there were 20 years ago.
Unfortunately, because it doesn't affect how fast a dog can run, there are cryptorchid dogs quite openly being used at stud in pedigree whippet racing, with complete disregard of how much the problem is spreading.  Breeders are breeding for speed, and burying their heads in the sand where hereditary faults are concerned.  One breeder said to me "why should I worry? - I want to keep a bitch"!!!!!

It's probably about time the Whippet Club stepped in to prevent it.  If they stopped the offspring of cryptorchids from obtaining a passport to race - it would stop the problem overnight. 

Just my views of course, and probably not the views of the majority, as it doesn't seem to stop people wanting the puppies. 

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Does the KC really register puppies sired by cryptorchid dogs? I don't think that is common practice in most registries. I am guessing cryptorchid dogs are also allowed to race? If that is the case, I can see that there is a disturbing lack of incentives for breeders of racing whippets to avoid breeding cryptorchid dogs.

I wholeheartedly agree that deliberately disregarding this condition when planning a mating is totally irresponsible.

Still, I think there is a big difference between that and breeding from potential carriers of the gene for cryptorchism, as long as they have other qualities, and as long as one takes this into consideration when finding a suitable mate.

If cryptorchism was an extremely rare condition, that would be a totally different matter. Then it would be much harder to see any reason for using a potential carrier for breeding.