Big boned dog breeds pet value?

[lurcherman]

as I love the site of big dogs and big boned dogs, presence of sight , and authority, I’m worried why some owners buy and own then ? What is there point apart from their main working point , this is a point as in pet point, ? I.e. st Bernard’s and sorts,, I’ve seen these breeds over walked and life die so soon in pain, arthritis stuff,

 

[lurcherman]

Ari,, your dog is a great looking fun loving, energetic dog so not attended at you and like minded owners,, main point was at why have a dog with limited life expectancy, which owned by limiting minding owners, I’ve Known owners own then in the pub trade!! Wots there life apart from sleep , just to say I walked my neighbours dog for years as I just loved him, American bulldog x mastiff ,, what a dog he was ,,

 

[JoanneF]

I think I know what you mean. My boy is 10, I'm hoping that all being well he will live for several more years. When I lose him I'm going to be in pieces. If I had a dog with a lifespan of 8 years, I'd have already had to go through that, and as i watch him still running around and thoroughly enjoying life, i can't imagine him being gone already.

What worries me more is the rising trends for giant primitive breeds like Ovcharka, Sarplaninac, Kangal etc. that are not well suited to domestic environments but look ”well 'ard”.

 

[Finsky]

as I love the site of big dogs and big boned dogs, presence of sight , and authority, I’m worried why some owners buy and own then ? What is there point apart from their main working point , this is a point as in pet point, ? I.e. st Bernard’s and sorts,, I’ve seen these breeds over walked and life die so soon in pain, arthritis stuff,

I admire BIG dogs too....their size makes you gasp and you cannot but admire their beauty...and then comes the 'but'...not far behind follows the thread of thought how short their lives are. When my dogs are in their 'prime' similar age BIG DOG is already rattling the heavenly gates.
But that's the point, we all like and prefer different things...there is no bigger mystery to it. Some like brunettes and others get hot on the sight of a blonde If the human race would have been wired to act and think differently, many of these BIG dog breeds would not have EVER even existed. It is our desires that makes us do things.....fortunately and unfortunately

 

[Biker John]

I tend to agree, for myself I think Deerhounds are brilliant dogs, lovely and impressive to look at and generally a nice temperament, but their average life span is to short for me. The idea of getting a pup expecting to loose it by the age of ten I just couldn't contemplate.

 

[Tinytom]

We never know how much time we have ...we lost a failed foster lurcher before he was 2 years old to a brain tumour ....

 

[JoanneF]

We never know how much time we have ...we lost a failed foster lurcher before he was 2 years old to a brain tumour ....

That's really sad and of course could happen to any of us - but I don't think I could get a pup knowing he or she wouldn't get much more than 8 years.

Different if I was adopting an older dog (which may be my fate in the future depending on how long I have Timber).

 

[Tinytom]

My friend always had deerhounds that lived until 13 years......
I look at time in a different way as we have adopted end of life dogs that only had 3/6 mths to live but would have died in kennels instead of having months with us .....
I love giant breeds and always wanted a irish wolfhound. ......
They are so many large guarding breeds around at the moment which are bought to look macho .....so sad .....

 

[Buddy1]

I don’t own a giant breed (OH would disagree), but a large breed whose average life expectancy is shorter than many smaller breeds. Obviously, I would prefer the breed lived longer, but then longevity doesn’t always equate to being healthy. I know quite a few dogs who have managed to live on into their dotage but have never had the best of health.
So far our dog has lived a healthy life. If that can continue, even if it is for only another 4-5 years, that will be of some comfort.

Looked up some of those dog breeds @JoanneF...

 

[Jan Woodhall]

as I love the site of big dogs and big boned dogs, presence of sight , and authority, I’m worried why some owners buy and own then ? What is there point apart from their main working point , this is a point as in pet point, ? I.e. st Bernard’s and sorts,, I’ve seen these breeds over walked and life die so soon in pain, arthritis stuff,

Oh great! Thanks I was very happy until I read this! ........... I never gave life expentancy a thought, I had mine because I love the breed, elegance and fun and energy of them. Does a dog have to be working to enjoy life? I totally agree they have to be fed, watered and exercised appropriately, but in every walk of life there are humans that do far from that (even with their children!) So nothing in life is perfect. If we 'own' anything, it is our own body and mind, we do not 'own' anything else, we are simply their guardians............

as I love the site of big dogs and big boned dogs, presence of sight , and authority, I’m worried why some owners buy and own then ? What is there point apart from their main working point , this is a point as in pet point, ? I.e. st Bernard’s and sorts,, I’ve seen these breeds over walked and life die so soon in pain, arthritis stuff,

 

[JoanneF]

Does a dog have to be working to enjoy life?

While there will always be individual exceptions, I'd say yes, some breeds do need a job of some kind. Border collies come to mind, if they don't have a job to do they will go self employed and get up to all sorts of mischief, or get terribly bored and start shadow chasing or similar. The job doesn't have to be herding sheep of course but for a BC, doing something - obedience, agility, flyball, HTM or similar - would be important.

We have bred dogs over thousands of years to do specific jobs (herding, pulling, finding, fetching, guarding) and a few generations of being 'pets' doesn't eliminate that. And that's why some of the dogs I mentioned in my earlier posts don't do well in an urban, busy, domestic environment. Of course, loads of dogs have been bred over these thousands of years just to be companion pet dogs, and if that's what people want then dogs like bichon frise, shih tzus, cavaliers etc fit the bill - being a pet is their job.

So when people are looking for a dog we normally suggest they should think carefully about their lifestyle and how they can meet their choice of breed's needs - dog ownership is ideally not about what we want from a dog but what we can offer a dog.

 

[JudyN]

Depending on the breed, a 'job' might be closing all the kitchen drawers when I've pulled them open, finding something I've hidden, being 'ball monitor', squirrel tracking, finding rabbits out of their burrows when they should't be and sending them on their way (with a muzzle on ), alerting you when someone comes to the door... But there will be breeds that need something the owner can't supply.

And importantly, there will be individual dogs who go against the breed type - so just because your mate has a husky who never pulls, and is calm and responsive on walks, or a springer that sleeps all the time in between naps, don't assume that they are all so easy.

 

[Finsky]

Depending on the breed, a 'job' might be closing all the kitchen drawers when I've pulled them open, finding something I've hidden, being 'ball monitor', squirrel tracking, finding rabbits out of their burrows when they should't be and sending them on their way (with a muzzle on ), alerting you when someone comes to the door... But there will be breeds that need something the owner can't supply.

And importantly, there will be individual dogs who go against the breed type - so just because your mate has a husky who never pulls, and is calm and responsive on walks, or a springer that sleeps all the time in between naps, don't assume that they are all so easy.

Yep...terriers although being small dogs in general...they NEED something to do, a job. It doesn't have to be traditional terrier work but they are bred for it and it is hard to stop them doing their thing if they have taste for it. And if they cannot express their need for a job..what ever it is..they can become hard to handle.
I've had one terrier that was good at herding, once I discovered that she wasn't going to make meal out of my chickens but would calmly sit amongst them when the birds were free ranging, I trialled her to help me to get them back into their pen and that was it. Her job was herding and guarding! To explain her odd behaviour for a terrier, she did spend first few years of her life in a farm and was brought up with working collies....

 

[Jan Woodhall]

While there will always be individual exceptions, I'd say yes, some breeds do need a job of some kind. Border collies come to mind, if they don't have a job to do they will go self employed and get up to all sorts of mischief, or get terribly bored and start shadow chasing or similar. The job doesn't have to be herding sheep of course but for a BC, doing something - obedience, agility, flyball, HTM or similar - would be important.

We have bred dogs over thousands of years to do specific jobs (herding, pulling, finding, fetching, guarding) and a few generations of being 'pets' doesn't eliminate that. And that's why some of the dogs I mentioned in my earlier posts don't do well in an urban, busy, domestic environment. Of course, loads of dogs have been bred over these thousands of years just to be companion pet dogs, and if that's what people want then dogs like bichon frise, shih tzus, cavaliers etc fit the bill - being a pet is their job.

So when people are looking for a dog we normally suggest they should think carefully about their lifestyle and how they can meet their choice of breed's needs - dog ownership is ideally not about what we want from a dog but what we can offer a dog.

Well that takes us nicely onto the subject of should we 'own' a dog at all? What gives us the right to 'breed' and sell animals, what gives us the right to buy them and tell them what to do and when to do it? Cor, now there's some thoughts! ..Well I love my mad Borzoi, he is blinking hard work,, drives me insane and gives me loads to think about! CONSTANTLY! LOL - I do my very best to keep him entertained, to give him loads of puzzles and things to do. He would love agility I think, but of course would never be able to compete due to size me thinks. He loves to 'find' things, so perhaps airport detection work! He adores 'fetch' so perhaps a therapy dog? Of course all of these things he is great at - until puppy brain kicks in! LOL Attention span of a gnat! Don't care love him!!!!!

 

[Jan Woodhall]

Depending on the breed, a 'job' might be closing all the kitchen drawers when I've pulled them open, finding something I've hidden, being 'ball monitor', squirrel tracking, finding rabbits out of their burrows when they should't be and sending them on their way (with a muzzle on ), alerting you when someone comes to the door... But there will be breeds that need something the owner can't supply.

And importantly, there will be individual dogs who go against the breed type - so just because your mate has a husky who never pulls, and is calm and responsive on walks, or a springer that sleeps all the time in between naps, don't assume that they are all so easy.

Which breeds are you thinking of? Mine was bred to chase down and hold wolf, he loves running games for sure. The other one I had 40 odd years ago would run and grab at my other dog a short hair collie she would hold him behind the ear as they had been trained to do in a brace, it was incredibly interesting for sure!

 

[JoanneF]

should we 'own' a dog at all? What gives us the right to 'breed' and sell animals, what gives us the right to buy them and tell them what to do

Interesting points.

The ownership issue is partly a legal thing. In law a dog is treated pretty much like your television, and that's why there have been campaigns to change the law because it doesn't come close to being fair if your dog is stolen. I personally don't really like the idea of ownership, I see my relationship as a partnership. Which leads nicely to your other point about our 'right' to tell them what to do.

The whole reason dogs evolved into domesticated animals was that a mutually beneficial relationship developed between humans and dogs. Back in prehistory, they would benefit from warmth from our fires and scraps of our food. In return they helped drive away predators from our families and livestock; then over the years we started developing them to do more specialist tasks like herding, tracking, pest control, and created the collies, hounds and terriers we have now. But that mutuality is why I still like to think of it as a partnership. We ask them to do stuff - which could be anything from providing us with affection to identifying cancer - and we provide them with whatever they require to meet their needs. It is a truly amazing relationship.

 

[lurcherman]

Dogs in the right hands are truly a fun to be had by both so I agree with Joanna as in a partnership! My partnerships was quite a learn as you go and it’s the same in the dog word, isn’t it? My main point was aimed at the owners who don’t know their worth, some over walk some just don’t walk , some breeds should not be just pets , but hey nice thread.

 

[Jan Woodhall]

Interesting points.

The ownership issue is partly a legal thing. In law a dog is treated pretty much like your television, and that's why there have been campaigns to change the law because it doesn't come close to being fair if your dog is stolen. I personally don't really like the idea of ownership, I see my relationship as a partnership. Which leads nicely to your other point about our 'right' to tell them what to do.

The whole reason dogs evolved into domesticated animals was that a mutually beneficial relationship developed between humans and dogs. Back in prehistory, they would benefit from warmth from our fires and scraps of our food. In return they helped drive away predators from our families and livestock; then over the years we started developing them to do more specialist tasks like herding, tracking, pest control, and created the collies, hounds and terriers we have now. But that mutuality is why I still like to think of it as a partnership. We ask them to do stuff - which could be anything from providing us with affection to identifying cancer - and we provide them with whatever they require to meet their needs. It is a truly amazing relationship.

Totally agree it is (can be) truly amazing, what worries me exponentially is that we are overbreeding, developing bad postures and bone structures, and breathing difficulties, filling the world with unwanted dogs who end up abused, thrown out and in rescue centres if they are lucky. There are fortunately many great owner/partnerships, but we need far more I think!

 

[lurcherman]

Totally agree. With last post .

 

[JudyN]

Which breeds are you thinking of?

None in particular - I was making the point that what you might think of as 'work' and the dog might think of as 'work' could be very different. So you don't have to reject the idea of having a borzoi just because you can't let him go chasing wolves, and you can do agility, scentwork, etc. in your back garden.

Don't let his size put you off agility - he doesn't need to be competitive and win rosettes, he only has to enjoy it. I've seen some wonderful vids of sighthounds doing agility, and the best bits are where they get a fit of the zoomies and make up their own course. I'd rather watch that than border collie agility any day!

I'm not too hung up over the terminology of 'owner', 'partnership' or whatever because my relationship with my dog goes beyond those terms. I suppose I see it more as a parent/child relationship - I have the right to make decisions about how to rear him, where he sleeps, whether and how others an interact with him, but I also have clear responsibilities regarding his welfare, quality of life, etc. And there will be clashes or compromises when he and I have different opinions over where he should sleep, for instance, where the rights and the responsibilities need to be balanced.